My Ebay Purchase -1964 Skiboard in Rideable Condition !

[jjue]

Some of you have heard about Clif Taylor and his Shortee skis circa 1964 .
http://sbmag.wordpress.com/2007/05/17/skiboard-history-cliff-taylor/

These are the very first mass produced skiboards and were quite popular at the time , in large part due to the charisma and enthusiasm of Clif Taylor , sort of the Greco of his time . Clif designed a number of models from 75cm on up to 120 cm long and had them made by a variety of ski manufacturers.


I am now the proud owner of a cool pair of 1964 32 inch (82cm) Clif Taylor Shortees in great condition and fully rideable ! Mine was the only bid on Ebay at the starting bid of 22 dollars ! This pair were made for Clif by Northland skis a famous ski manufacturer of the time.

Here are my Clif Taylor 82cm boards lined up with some more recent skiboard models ... Canon 75, Snowblade 90 , Line Bullet 94 and Condor 110


..
They are narrow at 80mm in the waist and tapered and narrower at the tip and the tail ,kind of a reverse side cut , very small amount of camber , super thick ,and ultra stiff and heavy solid wood , with a "permacite" plastic base . nailed in metal edges all around including the tail , up turned tail ... so really a twin tip ! This model is especially interesting in that it is mounted with the very first production step in release binding , the famous Cubco binding .

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/IMG_1323.jpg


http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/IMG_1328.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/IMG_1324.jpg


http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/IMG_1333.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/IMG_1332.jpg


Boots needed to have a special metal binding attachment screwed into the sole to fit the release binding .
The metal boot fittings allowed reliable release for the floppy leather boots of the day . The boots clicked right into the binding , a leather leash strap was attached over the top of the boot to keep the boot attached to the skiboard in case of release .
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/IMG_1331.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/IMG_1330.jpg

The boots used to belong to my father in law and had Cubco fittings and were used by him to pilot 7 foot long Head standard skis . He and I happen to have the exact same size feet and his boots are in super good condition and well cared for after some 40 to 50 years of age .
I had to remount the heel piece of the Cubco bindings on the Shortees but that was pretty simple ..

Here I am clicking in to 1964 step in releaseable skiboard gear ..

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Ok here I am ready to ride on my cool retro 1964 gear ... my son says he wants to be there at Donner ski ranch to video me breaking my leg !
I tell him , no way , I am in release bindings so no problem :)!
riding review to follow ! damn , i wish I had kept my stretch ski pants , so I could really look the part ... !

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/IMG_1337.jpg

[jjue]

Here is Clif himself on this very model of his Shortees , hope I can look half as good !
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/cliftaylor.jpg

[valmorel]

Damn good job you dont live in a trailer :) Come to England to buy an authentic Arran Wool Sweater................. (or Pullover as it is called in ENGLISH :) )

[mahatma]

jjue,

Neat find. Good for you. I love, love, love those boots. I want someone to produce ski boots like this again. The only thing I miss about snowboarding - the boots.

[jjue]

Damn good job you dont live in a trailer :) Come to England to buy an authentic Arran Wool Sweater................. (or Pullover as it is called in ENGLISH :) )

even though I don't live in a trailer , I still have no room for my treasures, even little 32 inch treasures... my wife gave me some grief at buying junk and cluttering the garage when she saw me in the midst of a binding remount project on these shortees in the garage ... I told her , no problem , I will keep these "antiques" in my office :)!

yeah , good old Clif certainly is stylin in his "pullover" and stretchies .. he was a paragon of elegant ski fashion of the time . Besides good looks , he apparently was also quite a friendly and enthusiastic chap who somehow was able to rope in a lot of celebrity skiers into trying out his shortees as well as a lot of regular folks who suddenly realized they could have a ton more fun on the shortees then regular skis ....

[jjue]

During the time Clif Taylor was promoting his Shortees Howard Head's skis were the rage ... I love this description of Clif's converstation with Howard
quoted by John Fry in Ski magazine

"A debate, apocryphal perhaps, is alleged to have once taken place between Clif Taylor and Howard Head over ski length. When Taylor seemed to be getting the better of the argument, Head, who himself was 6 feet, 4 inches tall with a gleaming bald head, brandished a 7-foot black Head Vector metal ski. "The trouble with your ski, Clif," Head reportedly said, "is that it has penis envy."' Clif was probably too nice a guy to have continued the argument after that but I can imagine him smiling and saying something to the effect that " performance matters much more then size "! :)!

http://www.skinet.com/ski/california-gold-miners/2000/11/whats-new-is-old

Here is picture of my father in law's beautiful 7 foot black Head Standards next to Clif Taylors 2 1/2 foot shortees so you can appreciate the debate a bit more :

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/IMG_1339.jpg

[jjue]

jjue,

Neat find. Good for you. I love, love, love those boots. I want someone to produce ski boots like this again. The only thing I miss about snowboarding - the boots.

Well , all I can say Mahatma , after putting on those leather boots last night ... is I really don't know how I used to ski at all in those leather things as a kid ... . Riding a pair of 2 1/2 foot long narrow waisted shortees doesn't seem too daunting a task .. .but piloting those 7 foot Head skis is a different matter... you can bet your life I am no way going to do that . !

[jjue]

One student writing of his experience riding on Short-ees with Clif taylor , writes " You don't use poles. Not with the Short-ees , ever. It is an unnerving sensation , especially since everybody else uses poles . With Short-ees you stay upright and turn and maneuver with body balance alone "

http://books.google.com/books?id=ASoDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA108&dq=clif+taylor&cd=10#v=onepage&q=clif%20taylor&f=false

Sounds like what we say about skiboarding , eh?

[bri_guy]

This made my day. Thanks for posting!!! And congratulations on your acquisition!

And it's nice to know that even in 1967 people had a passion for short skis :P

[bri_guy]

I never knew you could read old issues of Popular Science on Google, so that's pretty cool!

There's something so heart warming about someone's experience on short skis in 1967 being so similar to our own today. Halfway through reading the article I actually forgot I was reading something published over 40 years ago!

[SBruce]

It was fate that your father in law still had those boots! If anybody was meant to have those Shortee's, its you! :)

Thanks for sharing Jack!

[pinkkid]

wow, what a find Jack! good stuff and fun side by side pics!

[Manlenium]

Wow good find.

[bri_guy]

How would one adjust the DIN setting on these things? :D

Best-case scenario I would think there'd be a screw that would tighten/loosen the springs. Worst-case scenario, you can't. Or maybe swap the springs out for different tensions?

[jjue]

How would one adjust the DIN setting on these things? :D

Best-case scenario I would think there'd be a screw that would tighten/loosen the springs. Worst-case scenario, you can't. Or maybe swap the springs out for different tensions?

Hi Bri-guy , great question , these bindings were the very first release bindings with fully adjustable release settings . of course, they are not Din standard , but if you look at the picture below , the front spring has a nut in front that can be twisted with a flat head screwdriver , twisting clockwise will tighten the front springs down , and twisting counterclockwise loosens the spring ... the front of the boot has a metal plate that mates with a spring loaded ball , the rear of the boot is also held in place by a non adjustable spring .. tightening the nut causes higher spring tension on the front of the boot and prevents release .. the boot can release both sideways and upwards . I was playing around with the release settings in preparation for riding the thing and found that the binding mechanism is like brand new and not rusted or anything ... it was set on the lowest release setting ,i just cranked the nut up and now it is on a pretty high release setting takes a bit of sideways force to release ... i guess it was just trial and error to decide how much release setting to dial in , there are no numbers or anything ..
it was and is a very functional release design ... the boot can release both at the toe and the heel , can release sidways as well as upwards.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/IMG_1337.jpg

[bri_guy]

I saw that nut, and I figured that's what it might be for.

I'm tempted to believe that modern release bindings don't even look that much different than this under their plastic shells.

[jjue]

Getting ready to head up the hill tommorrow with Dcox .. we are going to do a bit of side country backcountry climbing and riding and then head over to Donner Ski ranch for some lift serve . I am eager to try out Clif Taylor's Shortee's .. Later in his life Clif began devloping a system to progress skiers from short skis to longer skis called GLM for graduated length method . I have always wondered if Clif , kind of sold out , to the ski areas and the ski industry , that coopted his short ski program as a teaching program rather then an end in itself . He wrote a book on GLM and later introduced it to a number of ski areas . The goal was to progress skiers from 3 foot to 5 foot skis over the course of a ski week so they could ski real skis .
Later in life Clif , passionately defended the concept that he was the father of GLM , while others belived that he was not . John Fry wrote this interesting piece in Ski heritage magazine in 1998 about Clif ...

"Taylor himself might have given credibility and structure to graduated length teaching if he had not been so obsessed with selling the three foot Short-ee skis that he manufactured, and by his conviction that the average skier would be happier to remain on three or four foot skis . Period .

Taylor’s GLM, if anything was his own “gradual length migration “ over the years from five –foot skis down to ever shorter ones. On the shortest skis , he taught beginners by having them swivel their feet to turn . It is not suprising that Clif encountered resistance to his teaching . Foot –swiveling was anathema to most instructors, who wanted pupils to learn the discipline of upper-body rotary movements to turn the skis.

Foot swiveling would become even less acceptable in subsequent years, as instructors came to promote a carving turn , created primarily by pressuring the curved sidecut of the ski on snow . "

So maybe Clif was really not all that sold on the concept that everyone had to give up their Short-ees and get on with long skis . Clif died in 2005 at the age of 82 . I was always wondering if he had heard of skiboards and what he thought of them and also what his final idea was about the concept of GLM and whether folks "should" get on with long skis or stay with their Short-ees. I found the answer in this nice piece he wrote later in life just when skiboards were taking off and getting alot of exposure on the slopes , and media in the late 1990's and early 2000's , when Canon and Line and Groove and other companies were on the scene.

“What is interesting is that trick skiing on 90-cm skis is suddenly becoming popular . Right now , there are 70 companies out there in the marketplace selling them. Even a novice can do tricks on them . There is nothing like tricks to keep kids involved. Freestyle skiing came along in the late 1960’s to prove that . And them Snowboarding came along in the 1990’s to prove it again . The arrival of little 90-cm skis , now called “ ski boards” . ,,means many of today’s beginning skiers arrive at resorts with these little boards in hand wanting to do tricks and aerials in the halfpipes, along with the snowboarders.” Clif also made a point in this article that his concept of GLM was always that skiers would progress to different length skis at their own speeds and own desire. There was no dogmatic need for the skiers to progress to longer skis . Some skiers would be happy with 3 feet skis , others would progress to 4 feet skis and be happy with those and some would progress to 5 foot skis and standard long skis. There was no dogma . The important thing was that folks would have fun on the snow from the first day and find the length that would best suit them .

[jjue]

I remember the 1960's when skis were long and straight , , they were turned by unweighting and pivoting them around ... In a sense Clif's shortees were the perfect skiboard for the time , they were similar to the long skis of the time but much easier to pivot and turn around without poles just by swivelling the feet . Remember guys and gals were turning their skis with ankle high floppy leather boots ... no plastic boots at that time . I will have to relearn foot swivelling as I am used to turning skiboards by carving along the side cut . It will be very interesting to me to see what Clif's shortee's feel like piloted with the standard leather boots of the time .

In a sense the history of modern skiboards and the relationship with current twin tip skis is similar to the relationship of Shortee's to the long straight skis of the time . Just as 1960's skis and Short=ees were linked in design ... the design and the way we turn our modern boards are similar , modern skiers as well as skiboarders have boards with big side cuts . we turn our boards by carving along the side cut rather then pivoting and swivelling . In a sense much of what Clif felt and taught about his short-ees can be said about modern skiboards and their twintip brothers . Turning skiboards and modern twins are similar . Starting folks off on skiboards is much easier and fun then starting them off on twins. Many folks progress from shorter skiboards to longer versions (our current Longboard skiboards are the same length as Clif's 4 footers ) while others go on to the big twins. Clif' felt there should be no dogma , we should ride what we feel most comfortable with , but he was quick to point out that his Short-ees were fully competent over the entire mountain not just training tools . or toys .. Yes you might have to trade in your 85cm (32 inch) models for a 121cm (4 foot model ) longboard short-ee to ride deep powder but you didn't have to leave Short-ees and go on to long skis unless you wanted to . No dogma .! refreshing !

[pinkkid]

well have a blast with Dave!!!!! Donner Ski Ranch should be a hoot! Gonna be warm though this weekend so might get some mushhola!
Looking forward to hear how those old shorties do and pix of you guys having fun!

sb

[jjue]

Arriving at Donner Ski Ranch , ready to shred ... 1964 skiboards , 1964 leather boots , ..warm day !
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/IMG_1391.jpg

1964 Skiboards and boots, 2010 Skiboards and boots , same chair !

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/IMG_1392.jpg

Kid realizes that old dude's skis are shorter then his !!!
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/IMG_1400.jpg

So what was the riding like ... well , I will let the video tell the story ... let me just say that in 1964 there were guys and gals riding real skiboards in ankle leather boots , they were shredding all kinds of stuff including black diamond runs and having a whale of fun . as I did today ... yes today time stood still and I was back 46 years ago on Clif Taylor's short-ees and my father in laws boots and having one heck of a great time !!

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[jjue]

Dave (Dcox20) and I stopped on the way home at the Donner Historical Society Museum on donner summit a funky museum and home office to the grand patriarch and legend of Donner Summit skiing , Norm Saylor . Norm used to be the owner of Donner ski ranch where we skiied today and unfortuantely had to sell out to the new owners a few years ago in a bankruptcy sale . He is a great guy and full of stories and still riding his Harley and lo and behold .. he knew Clif Taylor and skiied with Clif here at Tahoe when Clif was working as a ski instructor at Squaw Valley in the late 1960's .. Norm told us that Clif' short-ees didn't go over too well with ski areas because the darn things caused a maze of ruts in the groomed slopes of the time ..
He really took a liking to the Shortees that I showed him and offered me about 5 times what I paid for the things... but I said ... absolutely no way .. these babies are priceless :)!

Here is legend himself Norm Saylor with me and my Short-ees and Father in law's boots , in Norm's museum .. !
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/IMG_1403.jpg

Big thanks , Dave , for the nice video shoot !!

[valmorel]

Ha Ha..................... seriously Cali............:)

[dcox20]

Awesome - I'm glad the video came out so well... totally fun day!

[pinkkid]

What a neat day for you guys!!!! Great pictures, video and memories for everyone! That's cool!

[jjue]

Cubco bindings :
I discovered that unlike what I posted earlier the Cubco bindings are fully adjustable both front and back , although I tightened the toe release setting .. I did not realize that I could also easily adjust the rear release setting and was pre releasing off the heel piece.. I discovered that simply using a crescent wrench on the rear nut and rotating clockwise tightens the rear screw down and adjusts the rear heel retention . Bri-guy is right that modern release bindings incorporate much of the design innovation of the Cubco binding under the plastic housings..

http://www.rockymountaingearguide.com/images/cubco-400.jpg

More interesting stuff on Mitch Cubberly and his Cubco binding :

http://www.rockymountaingearguide.com/whoknew/261009-1.htm


Ski in a Day -Book

I just purchased Clif Taylor's book Ski in a Day for 9.99 off of Ebay as well .. The book is a large format hard cover picture book that is fabulous with great pics of the Short-ees in action both the 82cm (32 inch) model I have and his 4 foot longboard model (121cm ) (Cliff used the Longboard model in deep pow) ... ...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_0YGqvN3VNZg/SnCqg1AHGWI/AAAAAAAABiI/jI_IQEn58pE/s400/Ski-in-a-Day-01.jpg

Mine is also signed by Clif but addressed to someone else. .. but I would have perferred this copy that is signed by Clif and addressed to "Jack " :)! Book came out in 1964.. Wish I had taken a lesson from him back then .. I was 12 years old at the time and Clif was teaching at Squaw Valley !

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_0YGqvN3VNZg/SnCqhNspipI/AAAAAAAABiQ/Y3ammEiCIxs/s400/Ski-in-a-Day-02.jpg

Here are some other pics from the book

http://maxwelleatoniii.blogspot.com/2009/07/ski-in-day.html

Speaking of poles... although there are a few pictures of Clif with poles on the Shortees in the book , the vast majority of pictures are with him and others without poles ...
Clif writes :

"Lot's of people , who ski on short skis exclusively find it is just plain more enjoyable to ski without poles.... Poles are handy for climbing , once you have learned to carry them with you downhill without having them get in your way ... "

While Clif's books and his career was to a large extent focused on teaching folks how to ski and to get them on long skis IF they wanted to , he realized right off that the Short-ees he developed were not just training tools but great fun in their own right!
Here is what he says about Short-ees compared to Long skis :

" Why go to long skis at all? Short skis can be compared to a sportscar- it will go anywhere a limousine will go but is much more manuverable...

The Shortest ones (2 1/2 feet ) [75cm] are perfect for the packed slopes ..
Medium short skis (four feet long) [121cm] are excellent all-around skis for recreational skiing , good on any steepness of slope or trail under absolutely all snow conditions , even deep powdery snow ...

Shortees are not as fast as long racing skis , but they are plenty fast enough for recreational skiing. .. What's the best length for you ? Answer: the length of ski you find easiest to handle on the trails you prefer to ski . "

Right on Clif ! you got it right ... way back in 1964 !

[jjue]

One thing Clif was good at was getting famous celebs to try out his shortees ..
one prominent endorsement in his book is from Commander Edward Whitehead , shown here riding hand in hand with his wife ..

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_0YGqvN3VNZg/SnCqphEFzdI/AAAAAAAABi4/UGHmrRChDXE/s400/Ski-in-a-Day-07.jpg

A little digging revealed that Commander Whitehead was the ad campaign mascot for Schweppes tonic water in the 1960's . He was a handsome bearded Brit who was an actual Commander in the British Navy in WW2 and also was really the president of Schweppes and not just a model ... He was quite a hit with the ladies .. sort of the epitome of the suave , worldly , handsome Brit ! remember ( maybe the older guys and gals will .)... "Schweppe's , curiously refreshing !"

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/whitehead_duo.jpg

http://www.tvacres.com/admascots_commander_whitehead.htm

<embed src="http://www.encyclomedia.com/video/EMplayer.swf?playVar=1829|9784759|10063721|1" width="360" height="280" align="middle" quality="high" bgcolor="#ffffff" allowScriptAccess="sameDomain" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" /><br><a href="http://www.encyclomedia.com/video-schweppes_commercials.html" style="text-decoration: none"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="0000FF"><strong>Watch <em>Schweppes Commercials</em> at EncycloMedia.com</strong></font></a><br><br>

[Bill]

I do remember those "curiously refreshing" ads for Schweppe's Tonic Water, but don't recall Commander Whitehead or ever being tempted to sample the product. However, that doesn't mean a bearded celebrity endorsement isn't a good idea, and that may be exactly what we need today in order to get the message out. Since Commander Whitehead is probably unavailable and it's unlikely we could convince Valmorel to grow a long, bushy beard, maybe we could recruit ZZ Top to do a skiboard endorsement?

[mahatma]

Jack,

Truly great stuff there. You looked fabulous.

Bill,

Bite your tongue. No, no - keep going. What we need is a Red Bull skiboard. Yea. Maybe a PBR board. More yea. Do you think maybe we could get all sorts of uncaring, integrity free, morally challenged, money grubbing business people to totally over-promote all sorts of crap equipment and clothing by purchasing pretty, well know faces to pretend for our products? Lets do this right. Oh, wait a minute. This has already been done. Skiboarding has been there. But, what the hell - 4 or 5 people will make a mint while riding the lemmings over the edge and that's all that really matters. Right? Unfortunately, yes - that is right.

I would suggest that the word is traveling at exactly the pace it should travel. Those of us who actually enjoy/love skiboarding tell others and then point them to honest, balanced, integrity based businesses that sell superior products, care about their customers and about skiboarding. Businesses, people and products I proudly tell others are "American". Unlike 99.997% of the rest of the behaviors and crap we embarrass ourselves with these days. Yea, these are the good old days for sure. I'm very happy to be here. I hope we don't screw it up.

[jjue]

Clif , late in life ....
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/cliftaylorlateinlife.jpg

In many of the obituaries for Clif Taylor in 2005 , writers said that Clif was the father of the current trend of shorter skis for recreational skiers that we have now . skis ranging from 150 to 180 cm or so that are common on today's ski slopes compared to the 205 and 210 cm jobs of years past . and that his ideas were vindicated. Clif himself , kind of liked that version of history
http://www.summitdaily.com/article/20050307/NEWS/103070022

Unfortunately , that version of ski history is patently untrue. . In fact as early as 1965 traditional ski manufacturers like Head Ski started producing 5 foot skis recognizing that these were easier then traditional skis to teach beginners how to turn and easier for recreational skiers to use , but guy's like Howard Head who were making these skis , damned Clif's much shorter shortees as " play skis "

Sports illustrated 1965
" But what really bugs the Old Guard are the short skis prescribed by a Vermont ski instructor named Clif Taylor. He makes skis that are only 33 inches long as well as 4- and 5-footers. Taylor barnstorms across the country selling his little skis with the fervor of a medicine-show man, claiming they will have you parallel in one day of skiing. He has written two books on his short-short-ski technique, Instant Skiing and Ski Parallel in a Day. In Hogback, Vt., where Taylor teaches, his advice is, "Simply twist your feet to turn your skis."

His critics agree. In fact, they say if you wiggle your ears, the skis will turn—and that is the problem. Short-short skis are too tricky for beginners on all but easy, packed slopes. Dave McCoy of Mammoth Mountain, Calif., one of America's most respected ski coaches, feels it takes a good skier to handle them. "In deep snow they are a stiff, tough ride."

Walter Foeger of Jay Peak, Vt. says the real short skis should be banned by law. At Petersburg Pass, N.Y., Bill Haskins, an expert on short-short skis, says their lack of front-and-rear stability will somersault most skiers over the tips in deep snow. Howard Head is skeptical of the idea of a short-short ski. "A play ski," he terms it.

Taylor disagrees. "For powder or deep snow use my 4-foot skis," he says. "On glare ice the 33-inchers bite into the boiler plate like a skate, because the weight of a skier is concentrated on a short-edge length. Only racers really need 7-footers."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1078006/1/index.htm



GLM instruction using skis under 5 feet in length basically died out because of the eventual strong opposition by the Professional ski instructors association which did not approve of lessons on skis shorter than 5 feet. Most ski schools now use shorter skis for beginners but NOT skis in the skiboard lengths that Clif advocated. Clif himself , I think , helped kill his method of teaching because he believed strongly that his Short-ees could be the size of skis that the vast majority of recreational skiers could end up on rather than on the longer skis . This was anathema to ski schools .


So where are we in 2010 ?.. Clif began this battle some 50 years ago , and the battle has been won right here in what we now call "Skiboarding"
We have a whole range of shortees ranging in Clif's own sizes from 75cm to 130cm . Folks are jumping on these things without instruction and teaching themselves and having instant fun on the slope . Some are using these "shortees" as jumping off platforms to moving to the longer twintips that regular skiers are using , but many are staying right on the Shortees riding them without poles , and having a whale of a time . Clif felt one of the new frontiers on his Shortees would be "trick riding" and that also has come true as our riders take the modern Shortees into the park .Clif felt that skiing on shortees could become a separate sport of its own , and so it has become . We even have our own modern pitchman in G who like Clif is passoniate about his little "Shortees" and passionate in getting the word out . Sports illustrated said of Clif in 1965 "Taylor barnstorms across the country selling his little skis with the fervor of a medicine-show man,".

To me , it is really sad that we never got Clif and Greco together for a one and one about where Shortee skiing was in 1964 and where it is in 2010 .. that would have been one hell of a neat conversation !

What is really cool , is what Mahatma , has pointed out so eloquently .. the development of skiboarding has been an off the radar thing , without the acceptance of ski schools or ski areas , or ski professionals , ski shops ,, and even without celebrity endorsements .. sorry Brett and Kirk , ( most regular folks don't know who Kirk Thompson or Brett Connor are when we ride your pro models " :)!) , Clif was a rebel who was working within the ski establishment and popular culture of his time to promote his idea.. ( Hell he got Jack Paar , Commander Whitehead, Lowell Thomas , the Rockfellers and other luminaries to ride his shortees... kind of like Greco having Jay Leno , Arnold Schwarzneeger ,and Miley Cyrus , and ZZ top riding his skiboards ). I think Clif would have enjoyed the fact that his ideas actually continued to grow totally outside of the ski establishment and popular culture of the time ... shows the power of an idea that was and is really revolutionary ! Long live shortees , Long live skiboards , an idea that will not die . !!

[mahatma]

jjue,

It is you who are the eloquent one, sir. While what I am about to say has a clear mental bias - here goes - I find it interesting that both Mr. Taylor's attempt and the later attempt to popularize skiboarding fell flat. I personally believe this is because skiboarding is about reality. The ski industry sells fantasy. Fantasy is much more profitable and fantasy is much easier to package year to year. I mean, why is it the most I can spend on a skiboard in less than $350 but can spend 8 times that on skis? I do not believe the amount of material used is the reason for this and it is certainly clear that technology advancements are to be had on both sides. Same goes for bindings.

If anyone has been in powder that a Sherpa did not handle please state so. I'm not asking for a video - just and honest recount of the deficiency. I'm 6'2" and around 220lbs and have been porpoising on Sherpas in waste deep powder. I mean they were porpoising - I was following their lead. Has anyone here ever felt they got ahead of a Lacroix 125? Ever got them to shake at speed? I might want to see some video of that one. Slow motion video please so I can actually watch what is happening. My KTP's have hung tough in well over boot powder and I was clearly having more fun than my "regular ski" buddies. The Condors are still new to me but jjue proves they work wonderfully in the back country under a 190 lb. driver. I've said before that nothing is more neutral than a Spruce 120 and I've seen video of Valmorel showing how versatile they are in the right hands. Every single one of these boards fitted with their own release bindings can be had for the price of a single set of high end regular skis (sans bindings). Gee, I can't imagine why these guys would dump all over skiboards. Not a single reason comes to mind. I just can't figure it out.

[pinkkid]

well put Mahatama!

however... becuz there is such a big market on ski's and snowboards... you can get a very very good inexpensive deal on ski's, bindings and boots. Places like Big 5, Sports Mart and lots of online vendors make it easy and affordable.

[jjue]

jjue,

- I find it interesting that both Mr. Taylor's attempt and the later attempt to popularize skiboarding fell flat. I personally believe this is because skiboarding is about reality. The ski industry sells fantasy. . .....

Yes, and it is hard to sell a fantasy that involves riding things that look like kid's skis
it has been a battle since the 1960's Here is a guy on Shortees in 1964 ..

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/1964skieronshortees.jpg

[mahatma]

Pinkkid,

Yes, you are correct and make a good point. I should say up front that I have not the slightest thing against skiers. Great folks most of them. Now, I think the need to follow extremely rigid styles and behaviors is offsetting to me but that's just me and twin tippers are busy bashing big holes in that dogmatic mentality. What I dislike is the prostitution of dreams in the advertising. But, I suppose one could argue that in any form of advertising. I don't know. In the end, it's just something deep inside of me that says it's wrong. But, I remember back a few years ago (ahem) when skiers were some of the most sickening people on the planet. In the US they almost destroyed the activity due to their behaviors and mentalities. Snowboarding hitting so huge was the savior of the industry and a necessary thing. Kids were allowed to be kids again. No one was telling them they had to do these exact things over and over for at least 15 years before they could even be considered reasonably competent. Nor did they have to turn into elitist assholes that judged people by what they were wearing and riding. On and on. These sort of memories stick long after reality changes. Reality has changed and while I get tired of snowboarders for example taking up the whole slope with ground trick maneuvers and they seem to have a disproportionate number of riders who find in necessary to ride terrain they are ill prepared for - and in doing so ruin some good lines for all of us - I find their presents to be absolutely necessary. They, like skiboarders do things their way and have fun doing it. Maybe their age makes them less aware of the world around them and the cockiness of youth propels them to terrain they shouldn't be on but I'd much rather see that than the alternative I mentioned above. It is most likely I will die believing the "traditional skier mentality" needs to be kept in check by the world around them as they have already proven what happens when they are permitted a hand it what happens. Let them have their world is my mentality - but they are not permitted any more than that..

[mahatma]

Yes, and it is hard to sell a fantasy that involves riding things that look like kid's skis
it has been a battle since the 1960's Here is a guy on Shortees in 1964 ..

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/1964skieronshortees.jpg


jjue,

I laughed out loud. I've lost track of how many conversations I've had in lift lines with parents by first pushing my skiboard up against their 9 year old's ski and saying "Wow, we ride the same size". It's always a hoot and a real easy way to gently spread the word.