Condor not enough today ? Understanding the Skiboarding paradigm...

[jjue]

We are in the middle of a tremendous storm cycle here in Tahoe ... predicted storm total of 10 or more feet of snow by the end of a 5 day wet storm cycle ... maritime wet heavy snow ... today up at Sierra at Tahoe in the middle of the storm cycle ... grooming crews have only been able to groom a handful of runs and only narrow bands down the slopes the rest of the slopes and trees are filled with heavy thick slow glop ...
I was on Condors with my favorite soft boot set up .. .my son was on a pow specific floaty winterstick snowboard ... other guys were on big rockered twin tips ... plenty of folks on regular snowboards and skis were getting stuck ... i was not getting stuck but going slower then I wanted and fighting my boards a bit ... I was watching the guys on rockered twin tips and of course my son smoothly sailing through the stuff ... and I wondered was I undergunned? ... maybe I need a big pow twin tip in my quiver ... even my son asked if the Sherpa might be better, or hey dad how come you didn't pull out our 180 cm mono ski Teleboard , wouldnt that be perfect today ?
But that was only a fleeting thought ... because I have become a skiboarder and understand the skiboarding paradigm .. What we are about is having a tool that is just right , not too much and not too little for the task at hand and making the most of it ... We are not about having the biggest , floatiest , most powerful snowtool on the mountain ... No , rather we are all about having the most intimate , closest feeling to the mountain , that any snowrider can have ...
No my Condor is not undergunned... it is just right ...
Hey Son , none of this low angled stuff today , we need STEEP ! so we are off to the steepest slopes we can find ... and I am in heaven .. . I just ramp up the speed a bit and suddenly my Condor is floating better , I am smoothly piioting through broken glop , , yeah maybe I am working a bit harder to keep my fore and aft balance then my son on his snowboard and the guys on the big rockered twins , but who the heck cares... it is not about getting down the mountain fastest but having a totally wonderful and involving experience and that is what I have in spades.... I need to be on my toes constantly but the Condor is all I need , plenty of speed in horrible glop , no way do you slow down on the flatter sections , look where it has been tracked out a bit and motor on out ... I am not proud and follow my son through the trees , steep sections no problems .... and I follow his snowboard tracks on the flatter sections and we both have a whale of a time riding together .. It is wet and wild and the winds are gusting way up , they only allow chairs going up with a full complement of 4 riders to keep the chairs from rocking ... I love it ! bundled up , goggle , face mask blowing snow .. . fabulous , Condor is all I need .. no need for big skis or snowboard.. ... it is over all too soon at 1130 am a treetop blows off one of the pine trees and crashes into the lift cable on west bowl , a couple of skiers with minor injuries . but the ski area decides to close down all together ... wind gusts reported at 100mph at the top of the lift .. those of us at the bottom of West bowl need to be evacuated as the ski area is actually above us ...
Jordan and I and a few others decide not to wait for the painfully slow snowmobile ski patrol evacuation of the crowd and start hiking up the snowmobile trail .. eventually we get a ride from the ski patrol for the last 200 yards on a maintenance snowmobile road and then backed up by resort shuttle buses to take us back up to the parking lot....
Ski area is allowing folks who have bought tickets to use them again some other day .. . we are actually bushed from the morning and the hike and happy for the chance to rock in the storm today .. we have season passes.. so no big deal to finish early .. . .we see a couple of the injured skiers from the cable accident being transported by snowmobile and we hope they are ok ...

[CAN]

Hey Jack,

Cindy and I are in Salt Lake City with a storm of our own, also wet and deep 11" fell night beforeand several more while we were there. Really warm around 40 degrees. I chickened out and took my new scouts out, but Cindy held true to her ALP's and plowed through it all. Both of us had a learning curve in the deep stuff. I was actually yearning for my Condors as I didn't feel as home on the scouts as I did skiboards. I plan on taking the Condors out up here especially with your review of today.

Chad

[jjue]

Hey Jack,

Cindy and I are in Salt Lake City with a storm of our own, also wet and deep 11" fell night beforeand several more while we were there. Really warm around 40 degrees. I chickened out and took my new scouts out, but Cindy held true to her ALP's and plowed through it all. Both of us had a learning curve in the deep stuff. I was actually yearning for my Condors as I didn't feel as home on the scouts as I did skiboards. I plan on taking the Condors out up here especially with your review of today.

Chad

Hi Chad , glad you and Cindy are getting some pow riding, I really enjoy the Salt Lake resorts.. Snowbird and Alta are fabulous, nice staying in Salt Lake City which is only a short drive from the resorts !.. look forward to hearing how the Condors work out for you and how they compare with the Scouts... Have fun !

Jack

[valmorel]

Hey Jack... nice article. I kinda like skiing in those conditions, its like we are in a little cocoon with all that stuff happening around us. We are having freak conditions here in the UK too. I have six inches of snow outside my house right now. Cant remember a time in my life when we had snow here before Christmas. Unfortunately all our airports are pretty much closed so I was unable to take my first ski holiday and instead am at home writing this :(
Expensive loss :(
Your post also touches on a point that has been close to my heart from day one: instead of complaining your boards/skis/snowboards are not right for a particular circumstance, get up the hill and figure it out :)
Tip: in those conditions, Zardoz Notwax works miracles, but sadly it wears off every couple of runs...

[Trix]

Jack you are a trooper. I'm just not up to the hardcore rough weather stuff anymore. And as it turned out, not only did I have all the family/xmas stuff to do today, but my father in law got a nasty computer virus that I had to rush over to his house to get rid of.

You've hit upon a point that I've been considering lately. One of the most fun experiences I had on snow was a pair of 165cm powder skis from Dynastar looooong ago, before all the weirdness that has afflicted powder skis these days. These were essentially BIG skiboards. Wide as all heck, with a wickedly short turning radius. And for the size (which was very short for the time) they didn't chatter or misbehave. Me and the rep tore up Northstar on those one day many years ago.

So I wonder to myself, what would happen if I got the shortest possible pair of super fat/wide powder skis and the lightest riser/binding combo I could find? Would it approximate skiboarding while having much better float in the deeper stuff? Or would it be the worst of both worlds, chattery, unstable yet with a turning radius too long to work and flex far too soft for one of my... err, stature.

[jjue]

So I wonder to myself, what would happen if I got the shortest possible pair of super fat/wide powder skis and the lightest riser/binding combo I could find? Would it approximate skiboarding while having much better float in the deeper stuff? Or would it be the worst of both worlds, chattery, unstable yet with a turning radius too long to work and flex far too soft for one of my... err, stature.

I think in skis you can go short but really should size on the lower end of the recommended size range but not go tons lower then that , Ski design has been tweaked to match different rider weights and if you go too heavy a weight on a shorter ski all kinds of weird things happen to performance. . I am told that the rockered skis , have skiboard like mobility around the center in firm snow and then big ski stability in the deep stuff , and there are short assymetric pow skis like the Icelantic Shaman that are sized significantly shorter then standard deep pow long skis .... It should be remembered that skiboard design is now quite sophisticated and we are not about riding short versions of regular skis but high performance short snow tools that have been designed around normal sized riders not juniors or lightweight folks . The design of our skiboards are different then skis and are made to work to support a full sized rider . There are short skis like the Icelantic Scout at 140cm that are designed for a full sized rider but it is best to go with the recommendations as to weight of the ski designers.

BUT in the end , the most important point I want to make is there is nothing you can do to a long ski to make it a skiboard ... and as Valmorel says .. if you love the skiboard feel , like I do , it is best to get a real proper well designed skiboard and practice to make it work in all conditions. The satisfaction and fun is immense . The big news is that we now have skiboards that can be made to work all mountain ... yes , you may not be as floaty or fast in deep heavy pow as big twins or snowboards but you will have big time fun as I did yesterday ...

[pinkkid]

Just wanted to say have fun Chad & Cindy in Utah and Jack up in Tahoe in all this very very heavy fluffy beautiful POWDER!!!! WOW!!! Our Sierra's are getting slammed for sure! Makes it even better for super thick base for Shredfest!
Cindy & Chad, be sure to both post up more info when you guys get back!

... and MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!!:cool:

[koneco]

It is official. I am moving in with Jack next year. Deposit's on its way.

[CAN]

Just got back from day 2. Little cottonwood canyon was closed due to avalanche blasting so we went back to Solitude. A ten degree drop on temp to 25 degrees made all the difference and 27 inches of new powder were amazing. We saw another Skiboarder on older 8 hole skiboards looked like old 99 cm lines. This guy, Burke, was amazing. He used poles and ripped Through the powder like he was on rockered powder skis. He was the local ski hound who everyone knew at solitude and for some reason took us under his wings and showed us " his run" ,Concord, a black diamond run filled with knee deep powder. I brought the Condors and Cindy brought her 120's and both of us were in heaven( Cindy says thanks again Bill). Cindy loved the float of her 120's andI declared I will never think about using long skis again as the Condors were amazing, floating me through the powder drifts and plowing through them when I wanted. Jack you were so right about adapting to your situation presented you on the hill. Thanks for giving me the confidence to bring them out with that much powder. Anyone else reading this, know that revel 8 skiboards can handle anything fom park to powder, it's up to the rider to take them wherever they want to go knowthey will perform to your ability. I've bagged up the scouts and can't wait to get out again on the Condors. Oh if anyones interested Burke was in Powder magazine this year on bigfoots.(link below)He says we may see him in tahoe for Shredfest 3.

http://www.powdermag.com/media/photo/jaded-in-mammoth-gallery/index4.html#imagesubtitle

What an amazing day! Condors rule!

Chad

[jjue]

. Cindy loved the float of her 120's andI declared I will never think about using long skis again as the Condors were amazing, floating me through the powder drifts and plowing through them when I wanted.,,,

What an amazing day! ....

Chad

Right on Chad ! Rocking deep pow on skiboards !! you and Cindy have been initiated into the skiboard white room .. and will never be the same again !!!! be careful , it is addictive.......
people have been known to uproot their lives and move , just to be close to the white smoke .........

[valmorel]

Right on Chad ! Rocking deep pow on skiboards !! you and Cindy have been initiated into the skiboard white room .. and will never be the same again !!!! be careful , it is addictive.......
people have been known to uproot their lives and move , just to be close to the white smoke .........

Glad its all working for you two CAN & Cindy. Sounds like you are about to have the season of a lifetime. That moving thing? If the richest nation on earth had proper Healthcare, that would be me :)

[dis]

That moving thing? If the richest nation on earth had proper Healthcare, that would be me :)

Well, you know if you go a bit further north, there's a country that has health care, and has some large mountains as well. :rolleyes: In fact, it's even part of the commonwealth.

[CAN]

Hey Dave,
Tell Dis we called dibs on you first. Our next door neighbor just moved. Nice house. What do doctors know? Skiboarding will keep you healthy.

Jack, i see why you hike for this untracked powder stuff we have just discovered. It is addicting.

Shelley, wow this would be excellent light stuff to get you back on track. Hopefully you can get out aroud you with the dump you're getting.

Off to day 3, hopefully Alta today.
Chad

[pinkkid]

that is AWESOME Chad & Cindy!!! I am very happy for you guys!!!! The Condors & 120's sound amazing in powder! And this Burke guy... COOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hope he can make it to Tahoe! Keep in touch with him,.... maybe he will join the forum.
again, so awesome for you guys to be experiencing real powder!


By the way.. our Sierra Powder is very different that Utah or Colorado! light n fluffy there.... wet and thick here.

[CANtoo]

that is AWESOME Chad & Cindy!!! I am very happy for you guys!!!! The Condors & 120's sound amazing in powder! ...so awesome for you guys to be experiencing real powder!

By the way.. our Sierra Powder is very different that Utah or Colorado! light n fluffy there.... wet and thick here.

Actually, day 1 we brought the warm weather with us, and it dumped a wet, heavy mess. My legs burned out before noon, and I wondered what the heck was the big deal about powder. It was nothing but work. First day out for the season, and no groomers, nothing smooth, just piles of this stuff.
Day 2 the temp dropped and it kept snowing, and I began to see the light. We floated down black diamonds I wouldn't normally ride. Each turn had me laughing and whoohooing all the way down--not something you get with groomers. I started to see why people love this stuff so much.
Day 3 at Alta--crazy knee-to-waist deep powder. Wow. Exhilerating moments of float, and quite a few wipeouts in the fluff. Went down a steep double black in the soft stuff--which for me is a big deal. Now I understand the addiction. I know all my wipeouts were due to skill level and fear when I got too much speed, which was ridiculous since falling didn't hurt a bit. Chad floated on the Condors all day without a glitch. I could see how tempting it would be to live out here just to get better at this...
What a way to start the season--3 days in a row of nothing but powder! One more day left, fried legs and knees be damned!

[pinkkid]

Actually, day 1 we brought the warm weather with us, and it dumped a wet, heavy mess. My legs burned out before noon, and I wondered what the heck was the big deal about powder. It was nothing but work. First day out for the season, and no groomers, nothing smooth, just piles of this stuff.
Day 2 the temp dropped and it kept snowing, and I began to see the light. We floated down black diamonds I wouldn't normally ride. Each turn had me laughing and whoohooing all the way down--not something you get with groomers. I started to see why people love this stuff so much.
Day 3 at Alta--crazy knee-to-waist deep powder. Wow. Exhilerating moments of float, and quite a few wipeouts in the fluff. Went down a steep double black in the soft stuff--which for me is a big deal. Now I understand the addiction. I know all my wipeouts were due to skill level and fear when I got too much speed, which was ridiculous since falling didn't hurt a bit. Chad floated on the Condors all day without a glitch. I could see how tempting it would be to live out here just to get better at this...
What a way to start the season--3 days in a row of nothing but powder! One more day left, fried legs and knees be damned!


again, AWESOME!!!!!!!! what a privilege to do this! one more day, WOW! you guys picked a great time to go. Can't imagine... no, I can ONLY imagine! have fun and can't wait to hear about day 4, you guys are nuts!
Cindy, you better try the Condors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dave Bloom]

We got pounded with a ton of wet snow up here in Breck, too. I was in a park mood and the jumps weren't that hittable because of how slow the snow was. Even for the Dew Tour pros the tricks weren't as big and some riders, like Tom Wallisch, ate it hard on the knuckle because the speed wasn't there.

[CANtoo]

again, AWESOME!!!!!!!! what a privilege to do this! one more day, WOW! you guys picked a great time to go. Can't imagine... no, I can ONLY imagine! have fun and can't wait to hear about day 4, you guys are nuts!
Cindy, you better try the Condors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Day 4: Back to Alta and ridiculously deep slightly heavy powder. A couple times it even got the best of Chad, the master of balance on his Condors. I have officially been initiated into the trees--got my first tree branch in the face (didn't feel it thanks to helmet and goggles:cool:). The trees left me wanting more, but we had to book down early due to avalanche control road closures.
After this intense intro to deep snow, the 120s are my new best friends (those and ibuprofen:rolleyes:)
Utah rocks--with a package we can ski and stay for about 1/3rd the price of Mammoth, and the snow was epic. Snowed every day. Plus, even this holiday week, lines and crowds were NOT an issue. We never got cold enough for the super light stuff everyone talks about, so we'll have to get back here ASAP!
120s ROCK in powder!

[Casezilla]

Looks like I justed missed you, Jack. I was at Sierra on Saturday and Northstar on Sunday. I wanted to get a pair of Condors overnighted to me once I found out I was going up and how much snow was expected, but I didn't act fast enough to get that done. Alas, I was stuck with my ALPs: they were frustrating at times in the few feet of wet pow that we had this weekend. I didn't get stuck much more than my boarder friends I was with, but it was slow going at times and there were some sections that I couldn't make it through without following someone else's tracks. Chopped up sections were incredibly tiring at times, as was the constant extreme back lean that was required to keep moving through most of the untouched sections. I think the wetness of the powder was the main problem, because I had one great, long run deep in one of the gated areas of Sierra where I was moving pretty well through a not so steep untouched area. It must have been colder over there.

I'm ordering Condors before I head up again, but from Jack's review it sounds like I might need to look at Sherpas, scouts or bigger if I want to be able to charge deep pow. Here's to hoping the Condors will be a big step up from the ALPs...

[jjue]

...
I'm ordering Condors before I head up again, but from Jack's review it sounds like I might need to look at Sherpas, scouts or bigger if I want to be able to charge deep pow. Here's to hoping the Condors will be a big step up from the ALPs...

Don't get me wrong Casezilla ,, getting something bigger was just a brief fleeting blasphemous thought during a moment of weakness... :) Condors rock in all conditions !!!! , you will be fine ... the Condors are a HUGE ramp up in performance in deep pow compared to the ALPs ( even our most wonderful Sierra Cement ) ....

[CAN]

Hi Casezilla,

Like Jack said the Condors can handle it all. I had the Scouts out on day 1, brought the Condors out day 2, and the Scouts never left the hotel room the last two days. I had no problem staying with friends on skis and had not only just as good float but better maneuverability than the others. The trees were a blast and they were awesome getting me through knee deep powder. I'm 185 lbs and I remember you being smaller than me at shredfest, so float will be no problem for you.

My 2 cents,

Chad

[valmorel]

Hi Casezilla,

Like Jack said the Condors can handle it all. I had the Scouts out on day 1, brought the Condors out day 2, and the Scouts never left the hotel room the last two days. I had no problem staying with friends on skis and had not only just as good float but better maneuverability than the others. The trees were a blast and they were awesome getting me through knee deep powder. I'm 185 lbs and I remember you being smaller than me at shredfest, so float will be no problem for you.

My 2 cents,

Chad

Not especially surprised over the Scouts thing......... :)