View Full Version : The Line is blurred again
Line's new Invader ski is completely symmetrical for easy fakie and has a "snowboard like" sidecut. Isn't this what Mike Nick championed about his pro model skiboard years ago? Took them long enough to catch on.
Roussel
10-02-2005, 06:55 PM
as i've said many times, there is no fine line between skiboards and skis, its a degree. jsut like you have some skis that are made for more then one type of skiing.
i don't think this is a big threat to skiboarding, jsut look at the measurements. 112/82/112 smallest size is 151 and the sidecut must be pretty huge.
i like to think of skiboarding as a style of skiing with its own identity.
Yea, definately not a threat. I just found it funny that after years of making skiboards perfectly symmetrical, they finally tried it on skis and it worked. I guess it took this long to convince skiiers its a good idea.
SkaFreak
10-02-2005, 07:43 PM
Hehe, well there goes one arguement for those who say a skiboard is a skiboard if it's made and shaped like a skiboard. Since line is making these, I have a feeling they're nothing more than long skiboards being marketed as skis.
Roussel
10-02-2005, 07:47 PM
those really arent totally shaped liek skiboards, they are a little thin and their sidecuts are too large because of their lenght
SkaFreak
10-02-2005, 07:50 PM
They may not be totally shaped like skiboards, but they are becoming more and more like skiboards. I'm not saying they're a threat yet, I'm just saying if skiboards keep getting longer and then ski's get innovations that make them more like skiboards, eventually the two will just become one.
Roussel
10-02-2005, 07:56 PM
and they probably will someday. whats wrong with that?
are u afriad you wont be a "skiboarder" anymore jsut because there are going to be skiboard/ski hybrids on the market?
SkaFreak
10-02-2005, 10:29 PM
No, I fear that if ski's and skiboards become the same thing that it could impact the core companies of skiboarding greatly. So what happens when we can no longer get 99cm boards because it's no longer profitable because there is less demand and they can make the longer skis and make more money anyways. Many people were disappointed when line started making skis and not as many skiboards because we lost an important core company. Also this will cause the prices of skiboards to go up to a price closer to that of a nice pair of skis.
Roussel
10-02-2005, 10:34 PM
skiboards will never become skis. ever.
prices will probably not go up for skiboards
and if people ride 140 skiboard-like skis, let them, but they wont really be skiboarding.
a lot of people will stay under 100 cm, like me, i like the 90 cm and probably will not go much higher.
PureVenom
10-03-2005, 10:48 AM
Actually...Skafreak has a good point. If they do become one someday then small kiboard manufacturers wont be able to compete with people like line or Armada, or any of the other big name manufacturers. They wont survive.Then you are at the mercy of the big companies as far as what sizes are available and how much they wanna charge. So the merging of the two would be a huge mistake in my opinion. Thats just what all the big boys want to happen anyway. No more building skiboards to please a small number of people. Force us to cross over to twin tips or ski's.
Roussel
10-03-2005, 04:57 PM
armada and line and them will enver make a 100 cm ski, they will never make a 120 ski, and they probably will never make even 140 skis (with the acception of kid skis like the ghetto blasters)
SkaFreak
10-03-2005, 05:59 PM
You may think that they'll never make 140's, but then again, I never thought I'd see 110cm skiboards (which imho I have not seen, nor will ever because it breaks my personal definition), and never even would have dreamed of 120's. So let's say that you don't think they'll go under 150 ever. If they go at the same rate a skiboards, in two more seasons they'll have 130's that are symetrical. By the time they get that short, they'll need to widen em up a bit to get the stability that skiiers want.... I'm not against innovation, I just really don't want to see the core skiboard companies go the way of Line and turn to skis.
PureVenom
10-03-2005, 07:06 PM
I was just using line and armada to put a name to my point. You were talking about merging being okay. What I was tring to get accross is that if they do merge WE may never be able to get anything less than a 140(just an example size)If the companies who produce the small boards get shoved out by the bigs we truly will be forced to ride what they produce because there wouldnt be anything else. Like I said it's just an opinion of mine that I would NEVER want to see the two merge.
zenderfall
10-03-2005, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by PureVenom
If the companies who produce the small boards get shoved out by the bigs we truly will be forced to ride what they produce because there wouldnt be anything else. Like I said it's just an opinion of mine that I would NEVER want to see the two merge.
That's not going to happen as long as we have people BUYING products like 99cm and 75cm boards. I think there's going to be an opposite effect. If a company sees money to be made in shorter boards, they'll experiment in producing some, and if it becomes profitable they'll make more, and other companies will do the same.
Always remember that YOU'RE the consumer, you're the boss, companies don't push consumers around by making whatever they want, they make stuff hoping that YOU'LL buy it-as long as you DEMAND, they'll make.
SkaFreak
10-03-2005, 11:19 PM
Yes zenderfall, I do actually understand basic economics. Your arguement would be perfect if it were not for pretty much every part of economics that you haven't mentioned yet. Buisnesses will go where the money is. Almost all buisnesses will in time move to the area that will gain the most profit, as this is human nature. Skiboarders are a minority on the mountains, and if these companies can produce products that more people will and that they can charge more than skiboards for (and still be cheaper than skis of comprable quality) then they will go that way. Right now there is a division, and a jump across it is a big risk. But as the boards become more and more like one another the risk of losing their previous customers to gain new customers becomes less and less. <sarcasm> If these boards keep getting more and more like one another I may have to start up a skiboard company, but I think I'll do something innovative. I'll make the boards slightly longer, slightly wider, and then mount both feet on one board. I mean, my creation won't be too different from skiboards, just some small modifications. Just don't you dare call it a snowboard.</sarcasm>
note: edited to clarify the sarcasm there in response to the following post
Gargantula
10-04-2005, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by SkaFreak
I'll make the boards slightly longer, slightly wider, and then mount both feet on one board. I mean, my creation won't be too different from skiboards, just some small modifications. Just don't you dare call it a snowboard.
Both feet on one board? I like using my seperate feet. That is why I like skiboards, it takes what's best from both skiing and snowboarding and combines it into skiboarding.
I hope Epic will be one of the few companies that keep producing short skiboards with these specs.
Wood core
Sintered base
Wide, parabolic shape
4 hole bindings
All metal bindings
PureVenom
10-04-2005, 06:17 PM
sound a bit like the updated and shorter verion of a monoski. They used to have those in the late 70's early 80's. Both feet on one big ski. I think that is also where some of the innovation came for the snowboard. Since it was really shaped like the really old school snowboard. I think you can still even get a monoski. It would be interesting to see though for sure.
SkaFreak
10-04-2005, 06:22 PM
For those of you that may not have noticed the sarcasm the first time, or the edit, that comment was meant to be sarcastic.
PureVenom
10-04-2005, 06:23 PM
AHHH.....okay it read a bit wierd. But I agree with ya.
Gargantula
10-05-2005, 09:19 AM
I didn't sense the tone of sarcasm in your text, but I understand now. :)
Ian.cap
10-05-2005, 09:29 AM
That's the problem with the internet/email. No inflection. Sarcasm is usually a waste.
And PV, there's a few people who ride monoskis (or whatever they're called) up here at Jay. Interesting to watch.
PureVenom
10-05-2005, 01:14 PM
Yeah ive seen a couple people at mammoth riding them. Pretty cool. Looks really hard.
SkaFreak
10-05-2005, 08:11 PM
Yeah, my local ski shop actually had a monoski for sale for like 700$ a couple weeks ago. Even had the snowboard bindings that work in the same way as skiboard bindings.
PureVenom
10-06-2005, 11:07 AM
Wow...talk about killing your knees....man if you eat in on one of those with non-release bindings...ouch!!
actually, Line's first ski was back in the day (the 1260) was totally symetrical, they just couldn't figure out how to do it right back then so this is the first time in quite a few years they've had another go and I have a feeling this time they've got it right.
Also, skis are not going to get shorter, like around the 140 mark, unless they're aimed at little guys like the ghettoblaster or ar3...its just not going to happen, so no need to worry on that front.
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