Revel ALP 110 vs. Stiff Summit Custom 110

[jjue]

Ok ,I have thought long and hard about putting up any kind of comparison posts primarily because the way I have set up my boards and the uses I have put them to ( telemarking ) are so non traditional that renders my impressions essentially useless to most folks and can cause extreme confusion ( as I have been told in the past ) . I cannot help myself ,however, because I believe strongly that we are in a wonderful time for this sport where we have two dedicated guys who are putting their money and hearts into producing products for us . This is a really small market , guys and gals , and I am sure that Doc and Greco are operating on a thin margin of profit and can't afford any bad press. Well ,here is the bottom line , I strongly believe having plunked my money down for both guys products that both of these guys are producing very high quality , beautiful and wonderful products that while of the same general size and shape are not just clones of each other but really DIFFERENT , not better or worse but different flavors. Just like you might prefer chocalate and I might prefer vanilla ice cream . It does not mean that vanilla is better than chocolate just different . I read ski reviews all the time where one guy thinks the ski is the best thing that ever hit the ski world and another guy feels that the thing is a dog . Let us face it, we as skiboarders are all different .. what we want out of our boards can be very different from the next guy or gal and we are different sizes and shapes ( I have unfortunately been getting a bit on the heavier side) and what we want to do with our boards can be very different , and my uses are the most different .. that being said , here are my impressions .
There is NO BAD BOARD ... both of these boards are great ,but very different ... I very much hope that others (especially those who are riding the boards more tranditionally than I ) who have ridden boards from both manufactures will chime in on their riding impressions , I know that Brlkyn Carver has given us some impressions of the stiff custom 110 vs the Revel 8 revolt .

Concerning my Custom Stiff 110 .. remember , this board is not even being produced anymore . the Current Summit 110 is much more similar in construction to the Revel ALP , whether it rides the same or different someone else will have to say - I do have the 125 on order which is of similar construction to the new 110 and so will be able to offer some impressions )
Ok here are my impressions :
The Custom stiff all wood Summit 110 from last year is Much , much heavier then the ALP and very , very much stiffer and stiff uniformily through the board , it leads to a weighter, ,more mass like feel on the snow . It takes more rider effort to get on edge but once there feels extremely stable .
The ALP a much lighter board, it is nice and stiff in the middle and flexier toward the tip and tail , very easy to get on edge and carve , also very stable on edge , smooth and comfortable . Less effort to engage the edge .
When ridden Alpine , flat footed style both boards are equally fast and fun .
I think both manufacturers have hit home runs with their 110 boards but they are very different flavors .

It is in the telemark turn that my preference comes to the front . The telemark turn is a much less powerful turn on hard pack and less directionally stable and especially with a shorter 110 board , it is important that the board have a lot of stiffness to make the board not wobble in the turn . I have found that the added length of the 120 Spruce which is even a flexier board the ALP helps tremendously in maintaing the directional stability of the telemark turn and I love that board , but in the 110 range
the very stiff and heavier Custom 110 defintely helps me maintain directional stability in a telemark turn in firm pack .

So if you are a traditional skiboarder , just take your pick both these boards are superb just different flavors !
If you are a telemarking skiboarder you might wan't to go for the stiffer 110 (hey are there anyone else but me outthere !!!)

Final word , Kudos to both guys for making us such wonderful boards and for providing such fine customer service .... we are definitely very fortunate to have you both !!!

I am cross posting this review on both forums .

[Greco]

Thanks Jack. I appreciate you taking the time to review and post about the ALP's and I'm glad you're enjoying them.

Best regards,

Greco

[adamlynam]

thanks for a great review man..... and your right on about the flex patterns.... keep shredding!!!!!!

maybe you can meet up with me and ben wannamaker in lake tahoe in the end of febuary~!!!

ALP

[jjue]

Originally posted by adamlynam
thanks for a great review man..... and your right on about the flex patterns.... keep shredding!!!!!!

maybe you can meet up with me and ben wannamaker in lake tahoe in the end of febuary~!!!

ALP

Hi Adam! You know , YOU ARE DA MAN !!!, It was an important event when you , an experienced rider pushed for the 110 format ... the Mix AlP 110 was the ground zero board .. unfortunately, Seth's company was plagued by corporate problems and went bust ... No problem , the 110 format was reborn the next year in Summits 110 and this year , your original concept has been beautifully restored and fully realized in Revel 8's beautiful ALP 110... IMHO , the 110 format does not add just 11 cm to a 99cm board and make a slightly longer skiboard. On the contrary , the 110 format has revolutionized and changed the face of skiboarding forever, . We now have a tool that is fully competent across the entire mountain including steep and deep powder. We have defined a new all mountain sport. Small bands of guys and gals , around the world, will be shredding slopes alongside skiers and snowboarders and everywhere folks will stare in wonder on those things on our feet and ask "WTF are those ??????"

ps. be honored to join you and Ben for a day of riding on our home tahoe mountains .... Maybe , I can round up my buddy Wendell , who should be shredding your ALP by then ... You will however have to put up with being seen in the company of a couple of ageing skiboarders who use poles to get around the ski area ( ah sacrilege !!!:) ) Like the elderly with their canes ... Wendell and I have found that we prefer to save what meager energy we have for going down hill rather than struggling up lift lines or skating the flats ...AND you will definitely not see us in the park , but we will definitely want to watch you show those skiers and snowboarders a thing or two there ...

Rock on !

[valmorel]

Maybe I should drag my sad self onto a plane (invention of the Devil) and bring my ALPs along to join you! Sod all snow in Europe anyway. No poles here though, just grey hair.
Building on what you said Jack, for me the Revel8 ALP is the greatest sub 120 skiboard ever built. Super smooth ride, go anywhere format, brilliant on hardpack, and so EASY to ride. Nowhere near as tiring as some of the shorter stiffer boards. Brilliant!

[Greco]

god, if dave goes i'll have to go for sure. when are the dates?

g

[adamlynam]

the greatest satisfaction i can get from this sport is sharing my concept with the industry and having it designed, built, and shared worldwide for people to shred on... I'm super stoked that you like your boards and even more stoked that you use them as tele boards (coming from vermont i see alot of telemarking going on!)

grex... as far as tahoe goes, we were thinking feb 27th to march 5th or 6th or something like that.... we would of course love (and want) you to be there... but in the end its all up to you anyways right?!
let me know what you think... but i think we were trying to spend a day or two in the south lake area (heavenly, kirkwood) and then a day or two at squaw or alpine meadows, and maybe even make it out to mammoth... its all up in the air... but we're really looking forward to that, and hopefully you can be there mr. i lived in tahoe for years!!!!!

as far as the elderly are concerned..... haha it stokes me out even more to see more experienced older riders on revel8 boards... and we look forward to meeting up with you guys for a couple days of TAHOE SHREDDING!!!!!

-a

p.s. within the next year, i too will be a tahoe local!!!

[Snodad]

I'm a little late jumping in here but the review was great and very helpful. This review pushed me over the edge. Sorry Greco, I really wanted something STIFF so I went with the all wood Summits. It was a really hard choice. These are all awsome products!

My son ( 9 and riding Groms down Blacks) and I will also be up in Tahoe at that time. It would be great to actually meet other skiboarders.

Pray for Snow!

[airdonut41]

Dude, all wood summits? Why? Last years models have been improved upon, even by summit if not by Revel8. The carbon fiber customs seem like they would be a lot better than the wood ones in almost every aspect. I could be wrong, but it all seems illogical to me.

Dan

[jjue]

Originally posted by airdonut41
Dude, all wood summits? Why? Last years models have been improved upon, even by summit if not by Revel8. The carbon fiber customs seem like they would be a lot better than the wood ones in almost every aspect. I could be wrong, but it all seems illogical to me.

Dan

Dan , you bring up a very interesting subject that I have been really mulling over and trying to figure out ..

I think it really comes to personal perference and riding style ...

There really is no one skiboard that is perfect for all riders...

I tend to prefer really stiff skiboards and other folks hate them ...
last year's All wood Summit 110 is like ,the Loken CT8 , a super stiff board , you can barely flex it if at all with your hands ..
I really seem to like that stiff type of ride as do some other riders ...I think the majority of riders probably prefer a more flexible board like the ALP ... In fact I think one of the reasons that the All wood Summit was replaced this year with a more traditional layup was that a more flexible board is what more riders prefer ... from what I hear , however, the current Summit 110 either carbon or Aluminum remains a much stiffer ride then the ALP 110 ...
Now I really like my Spruce 120 also , which everyone thinks is a very flexible board ... but it is a really strange beast being flexible longitudinally but very , very stiff torsionally , the thing bends for and aft but doesnt want to twist at all , for me that and the added length really makes it sing for me ...

The ALP 110 is one superb design and I think defintely speaks to a broader audience then the very stiff wood Summit 110 from last year .. It is not as Greco has rightly pointed an expert vs beginner or intermediate rider issue either ( the Alp 110 speaks to a very wide range of riders from beginner to expert ) ...

It is just that there are some skiboarders who prefer the stiffer boards like Summit or Loken boards and others who prefer the more supple ride of the ALP ...

Like I said in my review .. different strokes for different folks !

[Snodad]

Good question!

The carbon and aluminum 110s are out of stock and not coming back till next year. The flex patern on the wood is identical to the newer models (basically a different top sheet). The woods are a touch heavier (I'll concede that point). But, I like the "old-school" look better.

I also ended up with a little more green left in my wallet.

PS

How do I change the "Junior Skiboarder". I'm more of an old timer. My first pair of skis were wood with cable bindings.

Greg

[airdonut41]

When you post more, it will change to skiboarder and then to hardcore skiboarder. Unless you become a member of team Revel8...

Dan

[Snodad]

Got it!

Thanks for the info.

Greg

[SFkjeld]

Timely thread for me. I am VERY new to skiboarding and have used my Head Big Easy skiboards only a few times. In reading through many sites like this one, some folks seem to think size matters. So in looking for larger skiboards, I found the Summit 110 and am just about to buy a set. The reason was based on the size + old school appearance.

I would love to hear some opinions on the Summit and other ski boards, based on my needs.

I am 6'2" and 185lbs. I am also a 53yr old beginner, with comprised knees(4 knee surgeries so far). Taking up skiing at this point is probably dumb, but I am afraid I am hooked. The reason I am trying skiboards, is that an "expert" recommended them as being a little safer than regular skis if used with releasable bindings.

So given that my interests are in safely getting down groomed intermediate runs, is the Summitt a good choice? Is lighter better?Should I look at >120's? I have zero interests in jumps or skiing backwards.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

[airdonut41]

If you have bad knees, the Revel8 ALPs might be a better choice. The summits are stiffer and less forgiving than the ALPs, which may or may not matter. Lighter is not necessarily better, especially if you don't plan on doing any jumps. As for lenght, anything between 100 and 110 should work nicely; I think that 120 might be a bit long. Make sure that you don't get just any releasable bindings; go with the spruces. Hope that helps.

Dan

[valmorel]

I have ridden both, and the ALP is certainly a more forgiving and easier to ride board. The softer flex is easier to deal with, and much kinder on the knees.

[jjue]

Hi SFkjeld, I am about your size ,... here is my take ...
You will probably want releasable bindings with your knee issues etc ...
My number one recommendation for a crusier board with the way you are going to use your board would be the Spruce 120 ... It is very stable , easy to maneuver , and has a very comfortable ride ... mounted with a Spruce riser /release system it is one heck of a board ...
The Stiff Summit 110 requires alot of rider input and effort to ride well and really is great for aggressive hard charging riders .. but If you want a 110 board I would tend for you to recommend like Dan and Valmorel , the ALP 110 which I think is easier to carve and requires less effort , it is also lighter ... Mounted with a Spruce riser/release system it is a great choice and I consider it a compact Spruce 120 in performance ..

I am a huge fan of the Spruce 120 and I think it sometimes gets less press then it deserves .. it certainly retains that great skiboard feel , is inexpensive and has a superb ride especially if you are in to cruising ... It is really a ground breaking board and is probably the most competent all around all mountain skiboard there is for powder , , cruising and stability at speed .. just don't take it into the park !

[SFkjeld]

Thanks Dan! Was wondering, when you say the Summit's are less forgiving due to their stiffness, do you mean forgiving in terms of control, or that the ride is more harsh and thereby harder on the knees?

Also, do you believe that skiboards are inherently any safer than skis? Again, all things equal; beginner skills, intermediate groomed runs.

[airdonut41]

Originally posted by SFkjeld
Thanks Dan! Was wondering, when you say the Summit's are less forgiving due to their stiffness, do you mean forgiving in terms of control, or that the ride is more harsh and thereby harder on the knees?

Also, do you believe that skiboards are inherently any safer than skis? Again, all things equal; beginner skills, intermediate groomed runs.

When I say less forgiving I meant more that the ride is more harsh, but, in my opinion, they provide less control as well. I say this because with Revel8 boards, you can "feel" the snow under you a little bit better than with Summits, but again this is just my opinion. And I do believe that skiboards are safer than skis having been a skier for quite some time. You don't get twisted around nearly as badly, and I have yet to crash on skiboards due to just riding runs. In other words, I haven't fallen yet on anything from a green circle to a double black, only on terrain park stuff. I <3 my Revel8s :D .

Dan

[SFkjeld]

Wow! Thanks folks. Just what I needed to hear. I was literally moments away from ordering the Summits, but see now it would be a mistake. Too bad though, they were sure pretty.

I'll have a look at both you suggested. Thanks for being so generous with your time!

-kjeld

[SFkjeld]

I think I will try the 120's afterall. Any opinions on the 2006 vs 2007 Spruce models? I certainly prefer the 2006 appearance.

Also, it looks like the PRO Spruce bindings are back ordered. Is the Composite binding a reasonable choice or should I wait for the PRO verisions? Again, safety being a paramount concern.

[jjue]

The 2006 and 2007 Spruce boards are the same board with different top sheets , if you prefer the more simple look of the 2006 model , I certainly would get that model as it is 10 bucks cheaper and is the same board ..

As for the riser choice .. here is the definitive answer

http://www.sbol.ws/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2605&highlight=composite


I think safety wise the composite riser/binding should be just fine.. main difference is performance issues..

Just a few additional comments ..
There is a definite difference in the 120 and 110 length in that the 120 feels bigger and may take a little getting used to going from a 94 size board , but once you get used to the longer length , the 120 is definitely smoother and more stable for cruising and certainly takes less rider input to stay on course in bumpy and variable terrain .. The Revel 8 boards such as the ALP and the Spruce 120 (which feels very similar to the Revel 8 boards )are more flexible and supple in their ride and soak up terrain variations more over the stiff wooden Summit 110 .

Ps the Summit 110 is a tremendously stable board and offers tremendous stability and control and I love it ... it just takes more effort and a bit more aggresive style to get it to perform at it's max ..

[graeme]

Originally posted by SFkjeld
Timely thread for me. I am VERY new to skiboarding and have used my Head Big Easy skiboards only a few times. In reading through many sites like this one, some folks seem to think size matters. So in looking for larger skiboards, I found the Summit 110 and am just about to buy a set. The reason was based on the size + old school appearance.

I would love to hear some opinions on the Summit and other ski boards, based on my needs.

I am 6'2" and 185lbs. I am also a 53yr old beginner, with comprised knees(4 knee surgeries so far). Taking up skiing at this point is probably dumb, but I am afraid I am hooked. The reason I am trying skiboards, is that an "expert" recommended them as being a little safer than regular skis if used with releasable bindings.

So given that my interests are in safely getting down groomed intermediate runs, is the Summitt a good choice? Is lighter better?Should I look at >120's? I have zero interests in jumps or skiing backwards.

Thoughts?

Thanks!
i am 5ft 8, 150lbs (when soaking wet) and i have the summit custom 110's (last years stiffer model). really love these boards, found it to be a perfect all mountain board. will be great on groomed piste no matter how steep, and will be there if you want to venture onto something a bit more challenging

[Snodad]

SFkjeld,

I ride the summit 110's. I'm 6'2" and about 215lbs and 49. My knees are still ok. I push them pretty hard and find them stable and easily controlled. I have been skiboarding for 9 years.

I have to agree with Dan when it comes to the ALP's. I think for someone starting out, the added flex will help you get the hang of it and be more forgiving for learning. The ALPs should be boards that you can grow with for a number of years.

Another option would be the 90cm Tashno's. They would be really quick and responsive. They will also way outperform the Heads. Short of deep power and super-highspeed carves (I may get some arguments here) they should take you anywhere on the mountain.

I too have gone for release bindings. I have Tyrollia Railflex on my 110s. They allow the full flex of the boards and 3cm of positioning adjustment front and back. Don't just put regular bindings on them. You will loose all of the design charactoristics of the skiboards. I would agree that the Spruce Risers are a great way to go. They have the advantage of portability between different skiboards that the railflex bindings dont have.

While we are on gear, be sure to check out any posting on boots. You don't want to make the mistake of getting "high-performance" race type ski boots. They put you too far forward. In my view you want comfort, good flex and quality. No fun when the feet hurt.

Have fun!

Greg

[JCX]

I talked to Greco today and told him the only problem I can see with Revel8 is it's so damn hard to pick a board.

I see the EMP's and think this will work nicely, under 110, use the non release and I'm all set.......then I look just above and see the ALP calling me.....a little longer, a bit more stable at speed, easy to carve, good flex, forgiving!

Then just above the ALP is the Spruce 120! I say ahhhhhh....there it is....a cruiser....good in the bumps, fast on the packed and ready for powder.

And you guys are no help at all. Can't someone just write a crappy review of 2 of those 3 and make the decision easy?

Really though, I won't be in the park too much, might catch some air from time to time, will definitely be carving at speed, love the bumps on skiboards and will spend a lot of time there. I will also be hiking to Highlands Bowl for some steeps.

To top it all off I have to keep up with my son who is on twin tips and just crushes everything he gets his hands on. (but don't tell him)

I am 46, have been skiing for 38 years and just got into Skiboarding. I Have no knee issues and want to keep it that way. I got into Skiboarding early January by chance.

I have been skiing on my Elan 168's and realize I just don't want to work that hard at having fun....they are history!

So......EMP? ALP? or Spruce?

Thanks for your input.

[jjue]

So many great boards... hardest question in skiboarding today! ... I know others will chime in but here is my take .. ps I was a long time skier before discovering skiboards .. ( I have ridden the ALP/Summit 110 boards and the Spruce but not the EMP)

110/105 board - ultra manueverable , all mountain board , take a sub 100cm board and supe it up into overdrive , and you have the stability to descend everything on the mountain including pow , steeps , moguls everything , ok to ride with non releaseables so you can get that direct attachment to the board if you are fearless..

120 Spruce tips the scale for stability at speed and in the really deep uncut stuff , must be ridden with heavier releaseable ( except for crazy ,telemarkers like myself who ride it with non release telemark binders ) .., sacrifices a bit of the manueverability and the feel of a sub 100cm board , but if you are into keeping up with skiers and snowboarders at speed all over the mountain and into really deep uncut powder , go for the Spruce ..

To a skiboarder moving up , the Spruce feels a bit big and the 110/105 boards really feel very comfortable and similar to their sub 100cm boards ..

To a skier moving down in size the Spruce feels nice and comfortable and like the most manuerable ski you have ever gotten on and doesn't feel big in the least ... the 110/105 boards on the other hand feel a bit small at first ...

For me most of the time at the resort it is my 110 board .. in the backcountry or on deep pow days it is my 120 ....

[JCX]

Thanks JJue!

I have been riding some really narrow Volkl's....about 92's when I measure them....more like skiBlades than Skiboards.

I love the maneuverability and quick edge to edge characteristics but man they chatter under pressure when at speed and have little to no flex. I have also been on a Line 98.

I have only taken out the 168 Elans once since the first of January. Man they felt like lead balloons on my feet. I would rather ride the Volkl's just for the shear fun than fight those skis.

You make a good point about a skiboarder moving up vs a skier moving down. I seem to be caught in the middle. After riding the 92's for a while the 120 might seem big but compared to the 168 is quite small.

Like I said, tough choice. Coming from skiing, right or wrong I instictively lean toward the slightly narrower 120 vs the ALP. I have never ridden anything that wide and wonder if the learning curve is one run, or one day.....I am sure it would be no real problem. When I rode the Line 98 I was skiing Double Black bumps and having a lot of fun.

Do you think the ALP with the width vs the Spruce would be just a easy to slip through the bumps? I have not seen too many in depth reviews of the Spruce.....I don't know how it handles the hard pack or how it carves. It seems like the ALP does that with ease!

Thanks for your reviews.

[jjue]

I don't notice the wider footprint of the ALP vs the Spruce , they seem very similar to me with the Spruce just being longer ... they are both super fun in the bumps ... the Spruce carves super well on hard pack as does the ALP ,
I consider the ALP , a compact version of the Spruce .

I have a 99cm snowblade type board and a 90cm Salomon snowblade and I am well aware of the chatter factor with those boards... none of that with the wide bodies ..

I think the learning curve is very , very quick to adjust to the wide bodies , kind of like one run for me ! They are much , much easier then wide bodied skis ... I hope that some of the other guys who ride all three of the boards you are interested in will chime in ...

[valmorel]

You know what? I read thru this post again today, and surely the conclusion here is that whether you choose 120, ALP, or EMP, they are ALL terrific boards, and you are going to be happy!

[airdonut41]

I agree with valmorel on that, you're definitely going to be happy. My opion is the ALPs, but that's just me. They'll be plenty fast to keep up with your son but you can also show him up in the park when the time comes. But really, you're not going to go wrong with any of those boards.

Dan

[JCX]

I have to agree, can't go wrong with any of those boards....that's why I am having a tough time making the call.

I think it's totally clear now.......I am going to have to get more than one board! Life is rough! Imagine having to have two really great boards instead of one.

I was thinking of starting with the Spruce as an all mountain board and if I want something a bit quicker edge to edge......add either the EMP or the ALP to my quiver.

Then again the ALP is like a compact Spruce.....hmmmm!

I will come to some decision by Monday and get something ordered.

You guys have been great.....thanks for the input!

[dcox20]

Originally posted by adamlynam
the greatest satisfaction i can get from this sport is sharing my concept with the industry and having it designed, built, and shared worldwide for people to shred on... I'm super stoked that you like your boards and even more stoked that you use them as tele boards (coming from vermont i see alot of telemarking going on!)

grex... as far as tahoe goes, we were thinking feb 27th to march 5th or 6th or something like that.... we would of course love (and want) you to be there... but in the end its all up to you anyways right?!
let me know what you think... but i think we were trying to spend a day or two in the south lake area (heavenly, kirkwood) and then a day or two at squaw or alpine meadows, and maybe even make it out to mammoth... its all up in the air... but we're really looking forward to that, and hopefully you can be there mr. i lived in tahoe for years!!!!!

as far as the elderly are concerned..... haha it stokes me out even more to see more experienced older riders on revel8 boards... and we look forward to meeting up with you guys for a couple days of TAHOE SHREDDING!!!!!

-a

p.s. within the next year, i too will be a tahoe local!!!

Hey when this goes down make sure you guys keep me in the loop. I'm in Sacramento and could definately come up to meet everyone - If you guys can hit Kirkwood on either that Saturday or Sunday I'd be stoked to meet up.

I'll probably be hanging with the oldies watching all you young kids go crazy... I'm only 27 but still not very confident on these things, probably due to limited mountain time. I usually stick to greens and the very easy blues. Had a bad experience a few weeks ago at Sierra-at-Tahoe on a green... now gun shy and need to see some other skiboarders to get amped again.

hit me up when you guys figure out the schedule. (dave@thatsignguy.net)

[Greco]

ben and adam are actually going to colorado after romania, they will be there 2/29-3/6. i try to make it out to tahoe at least once a season so keep an eye on the forum. i don't know if i'll be able to make it this season though with the newborn.

g

[SkaFreak]

What part of CO? There's a chance I might be able to make it up to ride.

[Greco]

i know they will be staying near winterpark but i'm not sure of their mountain schedule yet.

g