Spruce 130 Prototype-"Sherpa"

[jjue]

Great summer skiboarding ! Valmorel and I got a great opportunity to ride a new Jeff Singer prototype Spruce 130 called the “Sherpa”. I think this board will revolutionize big mountain skiboarding !

Details :
The Sherpa is 130 cm in length with dimensions 160-112-145 . This is one BIG skiboard. !. It is center mounted with standard 10-40 insert mounts exactly like the Spruce 120 . If you drop a Spruce riser/ binding on the inserts you will be center mounted on the skiboard . It has about the same turn radius as the Spruce 120 but the float of a mid fat 180cm long ski . Amazing! But that is not the end of it Jeff has come up with two other inventions that bring out the full potential of this board . First , there is a powder plate that will have 4 binding set back positions of around 15mm , 55mm , 85mm and 115mm . Second, Jeff has come up with a special touring riser that will accept a Fritschi Backcountry Touring binding , much like his standard risers accept Alpine release binding . The powder plate and the special touring riser are fully compatible with the Spruce 120 and can be used with both the 120 and the 130 .

Bottom Line :
Ever dream of a skiboard that has the float , speed and stability of a long ski or a snowboard but the manuverablitiy of a true skiboard ? A board that you can huck big mountain drops , blast through the deepest pow , cruise through broken up crud , never feeling like you are going over the handle bars ?
A board with all the stability of a big ski but one that is easy to ride without poles and ride switch ? A board that you can take climbing into the backcountry or on heli ski expeditions ? That dream has become a reality !

Ok , come along with me for a little tour of this board .

Here is a picture of the board with my Fritschi binding on Jeff’s new touring riser .

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/DSCN0963.jpg
Here is a picture of the boards on the snow . on one skiboard bindings are in the 2nd set back position and on the other skiboard in the 3rd set back position ( about a 3cm difference)

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/DSCN0969.jpg

Here is a picture of the riser removed from the powder plate.
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/DSCN0968.jpg

The powder plate attaches directly to the 4 standard inserts and will allow 4 binding set back positions . The prototype plate I have has 3 binding set back positions but I created a home riser for my Telemark binding that duplicates the final of the planned 4 set back positions. You can change your binding position on the board on the hill by just removing 4 machine screws and moving your riser forward or backward. This will work with the standard Spruce/riser combo or the new Touring riser / Fritschi combo .

I had a great opportunity a couple of weekends ago of really putting the Sherpa and the new powder plate option to the test at Mt Hood in Oregon . The only place in the US that has lift served summer riding . I had great conditions testing with nicely groomed snow firm in the morning turning soft in the afternoon . In the first two powder plate positions the Sherpa feels for all the world like a super stable , super fast 110 or 120 Skiboard. It carves like a fiend in firm snow with great edge control , never sliding out despite its way fat dimensions . It is easy to go edge to edge without poles and just begs you to go faster and faster and take the board to it’s limit . It powers through broken up snow like no skiboard I have ever ridden .

In the last two powder plate positions, the board changes to a more ski like feel with lots of real estate ahead of you and much less to the rear . In those two positions you can push your tail around making tight wedelen like slalom ski turns like a much narrower ski . You still retain wonderful carving ability . I loved all four positions . Riding this skiboard at Mt . Hood was like having 4 different boards in one with four different personalities just by adjusting binding positions . .

The rear positions will really find the most use in the steep and deep . In my experiments with Spruce 120 . I have found that rear mounted positions in deep powder allow for a real aggressive style . You can ride in a neutral centered position without thinking about weighting your heels and never go over the handle bars in deep pow or in variable cruddy snow . With the Sherpa , I am sure with all its options for rear mounting, on a huge floaty skiboard, , riding this stuff will never be easier !!!
I can’t wait to blast by my skier and snowboard buddies on this thing !



Here is a pic of me with my Tele mounted Sherpa , I am 6 foot tall , so this gives you an idea of the size of the board .
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/DSCN1030_1.jpg
Here is a pic of the Sherpa in a line up with my other big boards , Icelantic 143 , Hagan 130 , and Spruce 120 to give you an idea of relative size .. these are all mounted with telemark bindings.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/DSCN1032.jpg

Ok , so there you have it ! What a cool new board that really gives those of us who love all mountain free ride skiboarding something to write home about ! A brilliant concept all around ! Kudos to Jeff Singer for giving us something way , way off the map new and revolutionary ! Our little world of skiboarding is getting shaken up to its very roots by all the new boards coming out and this one for me takes the cake ! It is the board of my dreams!

Valmorel and I have taken this board through the ringer this summer .. I climbed it in the backcountry and rode in nasty suncupped spring snow where it smoothed the stuff out and made it seem like groomed snow .. I rode it on nice groomed lift served stuff and had the time of my life.. Can’t wait to get it in deep pow next season .. Valmorel has had the thing out to the Swiss Alps on the glacier as well as at his local Indoor place in the UK and I hope he will give us a report on his experiences as well !

So give a shout out and let Jeff Singer know what you think of his new board ! I don’t think he has decided yet whether to bring it to market and I am sure he would love to know what people think

[Ian.cap]

Not trying to start the whole "what is a skiboard" debate again but how is this different from a small twin tip ski?

[jjue]

Originally posted by Ian.cap
Not trying to start the whole "what is a skiboard" debate again but how is this different from a small twin tip ski?

Great question Ian.cap ! and I think with this new board it is worthwhile looking at the whole question again . My own feeling about this has been evolving . I orginally thought it was the length ie skiboards 110 and under and small twin tips 120 and over , but having ridden small twin tips and now especially the new Spruce 130 and the Icelantic Scout 143 . I think it has to do with both length AND turn radius . There really is something about board design in the longer skiboard /short twintip market that defines what for me is the skiboarding experience . I think that amongst the four boards that I have pictured the Icelantic Scout and the Hagan are more ski like in feel , and the Spruce 120 and Spruce 130 are way more skiboard in feel . both boards feel almost exactly like my 110 Alp or Summit 110 in carving . I think it has to do with the very tight turn radius , that very tight turn during the carve that defines for me a whole different feel to the board .. There is a whole different feel to a short twintiip with a turn radius of 15m and Spruce 120 or 130 with a turn radius of 7.8 m or so

[valmorel]

I got to ride the 130 on the glacier in Zermatt in July, and results were really impressive. I was riding the standard Composite Riser, centre mounted. Conditions were hardpack/ice, but at least I was skiboarding in mid summer! Edge hold in the icy conditions was fantastic. Way better than my shorter boards, and boy are these things fast. They feel very skiboard like, agile and quick edge to edge, with none of that awkward big ski feel, and I never felt the need to use poles.
They have that lovely neutral feel that can be so hard to find, but without being over stable and hard to initiate into a turn. They lack that light agile feeling that sub 100s have, but make up for it in spades with speed and stability.
Riders looking for more than 99s can offer, but without wanting to get involved in conventional twin-tips, which need a whole different technique from skiboards, will love these. If you have upgrading (and I really do mean UPGRADING) in mind, email Spruce and beg :-)
I will write a much more in-depth review at the beginning of the season, but if you have any questions, just post them up.
In answer to Ian.cap. . . . .Maybe they are somewhere BETWEEN skiboards and twin-tips. They certainly feel much more like skiboards than twins to ride. I find 160 and above very cumbersome compared to skiboards. These dont feel that way at all. They respond wonderfully quickly to knee movements and edge sets. Its great to get all that base area for powder days without having to live with much longer boards.

[Manlenium]

It still looks a little long for a skiboard.......I still prefer the smallness and turn tightness of covential sizes.

I want to try these bad boys out though...:p

[Phil]

Although these funky looking bad-boys are way out of my size rating, just wanna say thanks for a great review Jjue!

[SkaFreak]

I have to say that in terms of my everyday riding, I doubt I'd like those too much. However, if I had the money to drop into a pair (unfortunately I don't even have enough money to get new boards to replace the ones with a core shot that won't stay repaired at the moment) I would grab em to try em out in the deep backcountry pow and for those icy days. I would love to climb up one of the mountains around me and descend on skiboards, but with all the boards I've tried so far, they work great in powder until you lose speed, then you start sinking like crazy. Those things are probably big enough to solve that problem....man I wish I were rich or an amazing rider or had connections.

[adeehr]

Jack I must say man, you put your soul into your work and it shows. The community is greatly in dept to guys like you, valmorel and Greco. Keep up the great work on exploring all that some of the rest of us don't have the chance to. I look forward to each post I see of yours.

Those look really interesting to me as I was thinking about trying out the Icelantic Scouts at some point, but this seems almost a little more my style. Kudos for the great write up and keep us informed of new things you run into!!

[trickslide]

why not center mounted bindings like 50/50 (like a skiboard)?

[SkaFreak]

Trickslide, did you bother reading the article?


It is center mounted with standard 10-40 insert mounts exactly like the Spruce 120 . If you drop a Spruce riser/ binding on the inserts you will be center mounted on the skiboard

[valmorel]

In the brief review I wrote I had the bindings centre mounted skiboard style. Results were great.

[trickslide]

sorry .... imeant why even bother setting them back?

when people (like my sister) look at those when set back they ask "how are they any different than short skiis" because they just look like funny skiis

[jsinger]

The one thing that makes skiboards different from all other snow sliding boards is the turn radius of the board. Skiboards have a turn radius that is generally between 5 and 8 meters. Skis (even short skis like Atomic 120s and Icelantic Scouts) have a turn radius of 11 meters or more. Downhill racing skis have a turn radius of 45 meters.

The short turn radius means that you don't have to unweight the tail of the board to initiate a turn - just put 70% of your weight on the inside edge of one of the boards and they turn. Boards with a longer turn radius won't do this, so you have to learn a new technique.

[jsinger]

As far as binding setback goes, this is partly personal preference but also a function of the snow you are on. For ice, I like a center mounted stance as it weights the edge evenly and gives better grip. For powder that's 2 feet deep, a binding that's set back even 100mm on a short board makes riding much more comfortable.

BTW, the late lamented Salomon 99cm blade had the bindings set back 45mm because they didn't want people going over the handlebars. One had to make sure that you didn't lean back in a turn or you were on your head.

[Bill]

Originally posted by jsinger
The one thing that makes skiboards different from all other snow sliding boards is the turn radius of the board.

Jeff:

Any chance of the 130's hitting the shelf anytime soon?

I'm a big fan of your Spruce 120's. Reading Jack and Valmorel's review got me all excited, I would definitely be in the market for a pair.

Thanks!

Bill

[jsinger]

We are planning to do a limited production run of these boards for the upcoming season. We'll post information on the spruceski.com website later this summer and as it becomes available.

[Bill]

Originally posted by jsinger
We are planning to do a limited production run of these boards for the upcoming season. We'll post information on the spruceski.com website later this summer and as it becomes available.

Thanks for the heads up, Jeff. I'll keep an eye on that site.

Bill

[jjue]

Originally posted by trickslide
sorry .... imeant why even bother setting them back?
....

I thought I would make a few more comments on Jeff's new powder plate and the utility of having variable set backs especially on the longer skiboards . I mostly do powder and backcountry riding , often carrying a heavy pack and the main thing I don't want to do is face plant forward . I have experimented with variable set backs on skiboards all the way from a Canon 99ccm through both the Alp 110 and Summit 110's , Spruce 120 , and through Jeff's new 130 ( had that in sloppy variable heavy wet spring snow ) . The shorter the board the more sensitive the board is to subtle adjustments in body weight on the fly . A good skiboarder can ride a center mount skiboard in deep snow and crud by subtling adjusting your body weight forward or backward on the board on the fly but we have probably all experienced that sudden decelleration when our center mount skiboard goes from firmer snow suddenly to softer snow and we are too far forward and plant our face directly into the snow . By moving your binding back a bit you make your board much less susceptible to this kind of thing and much easier to ride in this kind of cruddy variable stuff . I have experimented with a whole variety of set backs on my boards and find that in some conditions I prefer center mount , in other conditions a set back position , chosing a particular board set up for a particular conditon .
Here is a picture of my Alp 110 center , Summit 110 7cm back , Spruce 120 center (actually I think it is around 2 cm back ) and Spruce 120 12 cm back . ( I know , the Alp is turned around facing backwards , but I did that in the pic so you could compare the binding position with my Telemark non release bindings that has the throw lever on the heel rather than on the toe like the skiboard binding)

I found the set back positions on both the 110 boards and the 120 board way , way more comfortable in deep pow , variable snow , and crust with the set backs vs the center mount positions , although I love center mount for firm and icy snow .

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/DSCN0918.jpg

Now with Jeff's powder plate for the 120 and the 130 big skiboards , you don't need a whole quiver of boards , but rather one board with easy adjustment of your binding with 4 available set back positions or center mount . I really think the powder plate is a very important low cost option to our arsenal for tackling different snow conditions . Kudo's again to Jeff Singer for coming up with a very elegant solution to those of us who have been clamoring for some way to easily set back our bindings .

ps. in the picture of the Spruce 120 above with the Revel 8 stickers , you see my Fritschi Alpine Touring backcountry binding drilled directly into the board , this required me to have custom t nut inserts inserted into the skiboard . Now with Jeff's powder plate and touring riser adapter for the Fritschi binding I can attach my binding directly to the regular 10x40 inserts AND have 4 variable easily adjusted set back positions .. sweet!!!

[Gromit]

Valmorel let me try the Sherpa 130s, on a visit to the snodome. Although his boots are bigger than mine, they share the same sole length so we can easily swap boards with each other. I had my composite riser/Salomon 810 mounted Revel 8 ALP 110s with me so Valmorel rode those when I had the Sherpas on my boots. The runs at the snodome aren't that long or wide.
My impression is that the Sherpas would be much more in their element on a wider, longer piste. I could feel the extra speed capability over my ALPs but yet turning wasn't that much slower or harder to initiate. I found that I needed to be a little more positive when starting to turn but as it wasn't easy to go at speed due to the brevity of the runs, I can't comment on whether the effect is more pronounced as you go faster. Switching back to my ALPs, on the first run they felt a little unstable compared to the 130s but on further runs on the 110s I was soon back 'at home'.
Would I buy a pair of Sherpas? At present the answer is no. I've been riding skiboards for several years now. This last season, I started using 110cm boards having used Head Liners (a.k.a. Big Easys) 94cm previously. I used conventional skis before that. I weight 142 pounds and am 5'6". At my present level of experience, on real pistes up in the mountains, I believe that the 130s would be too fast for me and I'd get in trouble too many times. If I was heavier and taller then I would probably be able to see more benefits from the 130s. Maybe next winter, I could try the Spruce 120s. They might suit my weight and experience level better than the Sherpas whilst giving me a little more speed than my 110s.

[jjue]

Gromit , thanks a whole lot for sharing your experience with the new Spruce 130's. Actually , now with the ALP 110, Summit 110 , the Spruce 120 and the Spruce 130/Sherpa we have a whole range of " big" all mountain skiboards ready to tackle any condition . I have ridden them all and can attest that they are all great boards . Which board a particular rider while find most appealing will depend on a whole lot of factors , including size and weight of the rider, type of snow conditions they will face , and particular riding style . I do not deny that I like to go fast in all conditions including bumpy , variable , cruddy snow .and deep pow and some of the characteristics of the Sherpa that you mention really appeal to me . To me it has all the stability at speed of a big ski or snowboard , yet turns like a 110 or 120 and nothing like a big ski which feels real "boat" like in comparison .

Ok ... this new Spruce 130 is really a chameleon and besides being a real all mountain resort " Big Gun" when used with the standard Spruce /riser combo and powder plate , this "Sherpa " is really true to it's name in the backcountry . I know , that the number of folks interested in using skiboards in the backcountry is very small but I wanted to take those interesed on a tour of this special application .

Ok slap a pair of detachable climbing skins on the Sherpa or the Spruce 120 for that matter . Then attach a Fritschi Alpine Touring Binding to the new prototype Spruce touring riser, and then to a powder plate on the 10/40 inserts of a Spruce 120 or the new Sherpa 130 and you have a bomber backcountry package , capable of taking you and a heavy backcountry pack to the summit of any mountain you care to climb AND then give you the ride of your life on the way down , no matter what the snow condition !

Here is a picture of the Sherpa 130 with a climbing skin on it's base :


http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/DSCN0977.jpg

Here is a picture of the Sherpa ready to climb , with rear lever in unlocked position on the Fritschi binding a to allow a free climbing mode to your ski binding , and a special custom ski crampon I use to help with climbing ice .. The binding is set back into the 3rd position about 80mm back to allow for descent in some very nasty deep spring slushy muck after the climb .
When ready to shred at the top of the climb , it is very easy to rip off the skins , lock the climbing lever down without getting out of your skiboard and off you go down hill !
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/DSCN09730001.jpg


I actually enjoy the climbing part ALMOST as much as the screaming downhill descent !

Here is a pic of me climbing earlier this year on my Fritschi mounted Spruce 120 ..

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/DSCN0858.jpg

ps . 10-40 insert boards like the Spruce 120 and the new Spruce 130 Sherpa also allow for easy conversion to Telemark skiboards via my custom home riser sporting a Telemark binding on top and a heel block drilled into the board. Telemark bindings are skied with a free heel all the time usually with a non release binding , while Alpine touring bindings are free heel only in the climbing mode and then lock into a standard alpine release binding for the descent.
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/DSCN10640001.jpg

Here is a picture of a rear mounted Telemark Sherpa 130 and a rear mounted Fritschi Alpine Touring Sherpa 130 side by side ,
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/DSCN10650001.jpg

[jeff-0]

damn those pictures really make me realize how much i miss snow. yea you see all these pow shots and you think that would do the trick, but here in PA the slush and ice is a tad more common. man only a few more months

[winterparkrider]

yeh I feel bad for everyone on the eastcoast. I have already seen snow. It was at the 12000 ft mark but it was snow nun the less. I should have ridable snow in oct. the resort doesnt open until nov because of the national forest service lease on the land that most colorado resorts sit on. But I might venture out of the vally and go to A-basin befor the official winterpark opening. berthoud pass should be skiable in early to mid oct. I have only a few more weeks to get ready. best of luck to everyone this year.

[retox]

Wow, Im very glad I got my ass in gear and joined the forum.
Im new to you guys so let me introduce myself. I live in central Massachusetts and have been riding snojams since 1998 !! Im not lying. Ive always gotten crazy looks from people ( who hasnt ) but for the past 3 years ive done trips to CO to see a firend and do some skiing ofcourse! and Ive stuffed the snojams in with the LINE motherships and I always end up on the jams, lol. What can I say Im a skiboarder at heart.
I just ordered a pair of Summit Custom 110 Classic LE, theyre beautiful and have similar cuts to my old snojams, but up from 88 to 110. Cant wait to try em out ! Oh and I need some bindings too... any recommendations?
thanks,
bob :D

[Mark]

Originally posted by trickslide
why not center mounted bindings like 50/50 (like a skiboard)?

you are worrying me lately brother. the whole point of these is for big mountain riding and you want alot of ski in front of you for that.

[jjue]

Originally posted by retox
... Oh and I need some bindings too... any recommendations?
thanks,
bob :D [/B]

Hey , welcome, Bob! ..
I think the general consensus is that the Bombers are THE performance non release binding and that the Spruce riser/release combos are THE choice if you want a release option ...

[tyberesk]

Originally posted by jjue
Hey , welcome, Bob! ..
I think the general consensus is that the Bombers are THE performance non release binding and that the Spruce riser/release combos are THE choice if you want a release option ...

but if you want a cheaper version of the non-release bindings then the snowjam Extreme IIs will do. Because not all of us can shell out that much for some bindings.

[retox]

hmm well ive been using non release for yars with out injury or incident... but if i cant pony the $$ Ill keep my eyes open for some release ...

thanks for the feed back