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View Full Version : Why Shortboard??-More on the KTP



jjue
12-16-2007, 10:48 PM
Now that we have 105 and 110's that can do it all , why would any of us want to ride something shorter ??? And why would Greco and Kirk team up to design a new 101 board , isn't that length passe' ? And why fat ? and why stiff?

I am a confirmed longboarder and 110 rider and yet I was always hankering to try a new 100 board to replace my ageing Canon M7 99 . So the KTP it was this year ! and boy am I lucky ... I got to ride that thing alot today at Northstar which had their steep backside runs open 1800 vertical of fast continuous icy black diamond groomed slopes . Today was a cold day with no snow for a week and the snow was seriously firm , you know the kind that has good snowboarders sliding out and skiers carefully picking their way down the slope .

I had the Sherpa out first and of course that thing holds ice like a slalom ski despite it's girth , no surprise . Then again off to the KTP , last week rode it in deep powder , this week in the reverse condition firm steep icy slopes .

So whats so special about a short board , and especially what is so special about the KTP . ?? The answer for one , is SHORT.
I know that there are folks here to prefer to ride the BWP to the EMP or the ALP but why ??? A day on the KTP for this 110 and longboard rider was a total relevation , I understand !
10 cm does make a difference and the KTP is much easier to skate for me then my longer boards .
10cm does make a difference and the board feels much more nimble and manuverable, it is very special feeling for me to have such a light weight responsive board on my feet , feels like skates .
But all this is for naught , if this board does not PERFORM , and yes it does and then some !

Ok I certainly don't lay carves like Kirk but I did try the thing carving the steep and icy slopes both at 4cm back and at center . No question center is better in firm , icy snow . You feel like you get better control of the whole edge on the snow . I will set the board back for pow , but remain centered in icy snow . 4cm back does work well in soft snow groomers like you get on pow days like last weekend . but for firm icy days like today you can't beat center .

Ok how do they do when you lay them into a carve , whenever there is some soft snow over the firm icy snow , the board hooks up well and carves like a dream easy as pie. Now , like Brklyncarver says , when you really lay some speed into these boards on a steep icy slope they chatter a bit . More than my 110 or longer boards ... but what does that really mean ???

Here is what I think is happening , these boards bite snow like a fiend , they are very stiff and I can get an edge like no tomorrow on these . Now on ice on moderate slopes no problem both edges carve nicely , on steep ice there is just a little bit of edge slippage this can be accentuated if the snow is a little bit chunky or lumpy ice and you can feel both edges release just a little bit driving into a turn at high speed , roll off the speed a bit and this does not happen . I really think this has to do with the shorter edge of the board vs a 110 or longer board . BUT is easily remedied by just a slight variation in technique . Rather than drive into the turn with equal weight on both feet , I drive into a steep icy turn with most of my weight to the outside foot with a light inside foot , I can feel the edge force wonderfully on my outside edge all my weight there ,as if I am on ice skates , then a gradually weight the inside edge and concentrate on feeling the edge forces build up on that edge . ,the the turn happens and the inside foot turns and becomes the more weighted outside foot . I feel like I am carving more foot to foot then equal footed , this helps me to eliminate that chattering on ice on steep and is a very nice feeling .

Now here is an important point , often skiers like myself think they know all about how to make a skiboard work , the answer is they don't know at all . Especially on the shorter boards , you guys who do this all the time and ride at high speed on icy steep slopes are masters of handling your edges which skiers are not . Skiers can be lazy and skid their tails , I do it all the time on skis , skiboards especially shorter skiboards at high speed on technical steep slopes demand careful attention to technique , you need to be working your edges .

The other technique , I found was on really icy snow it is better not to try to carve too hard if you can't really get an edge which is rare with the KTP as it edges very well , just slide out a bit and look for some softer snow on the other side of the icy patch to grab an edge .

Now the coolest thing about a day like today , is that to the edge of the steep icy slope there is 4 inch deep wonderful sloughed off powdery snow that is in a narrow band , even too narrow to turn on with my Sherpa , but with the KTP , you can cruise wounderflly down the sloughed off snow as if you were in pow .. .the wide shape of the KTP is wonderful and you can feel the g forces as you just drop , edge set to edge set like an elevator down this soft stuff while everyone else is struggling in the middle of the icy steep slope .. very , very cool ! I couldn't get enough of that !

The KTP is a very smooth board , it is not tiring to ride , feels totally and completely natural to move about and ride without poles , reacts to your bodies movements with grace and power , it is a very high performance board that will teach you well . The feeback is instantaneous and you immediately know if you are doing something right or wrong .

It was cool riding this board in difficult steep slopes and people doing a bit of a double take and look down at my feet :)!

Here is a pic of a very special quiver ! ( ps . yes those are extreme 2 bindings , I replaced the metal toe levers with plastic ones to save some damage to the soft plastic of my expensive alpine touring boots )

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/DSCN11480001.jpg

anaesthetic
12-17-2007, 07:18 AM
Thanks for yet another in depth review Jack.
I think if I get back from the Alps having struggled in any pow, these will be mine!

tyberesk
12-17-2007, 11:29 AM
the snowjams are now alot like the ffcams. Im glad the ktps are turning out to be as amazing as they were hyped to be. I love the look of the sherpa/120/alp/ktp all together. Does the squarish tip float better than a more rounded tip (like Loken/Canons)

jjue
12-17-2007, 11:31 AM
Yeah , Ty , I think that big fat squarish tip creates alot of lift in pow ...

A little more on carvin g....

Here is a nice article describing what I was doing carving the KTP on steep ice (there is SOME useful information in the ski instruction literature , that can apply to skiboards ) , the outside skiboard (stance skiboard , has a high edge angle ) , the inside skiboard is on the snow but lighter the knee of the inside skiboard leg is pulled up and under the chest , hip out to the center of the turn ... ... this is a standard ski racing technique as well .. I was playing with all kinds of carving , two foot standard skiboard carves , equally weighted and this kind of more one footed carve ..this just happened to work best for me on the steep ice at high speed ..

Bottom line experiment with all kinds of techniques on these high performance skiboards , the skiboards , not any ski instructor will immediately tell you what is working and what is not !

http://www.firsttracksonline.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=561

Phil
12-17-2007, 01:45 PM
Lets put the KTP's into context with traditional skis.

Probably the king of powder at the moment is the K2 Pontoons, these beasts are truly massive for the most deepest of fresh dumps.

Stats: 16/13/12

And for the KTP's?

15.5/12.5/15.5

Err, wow!!

Couple this with the maneuverability over the length of the K2's and ease it would be to boot-hike or skin up with these puppies they do seem very tempting :)

All I need now is some off-piste areas to play in ;)

Manlenium
12-19-2007, 07:36 AM
JJUE Keep on buying boards so these reviews keep coming.:p :p

pinkkid
01-11-2008, 12:00 PM
First off, I am not new to the sport, but feel like myself, brother and spouse are the only ones who skiboard at our local resorts! Too bad for those not skiboarding, they are missing out bigtime! Anyways, I ride the no longer n business Canon M7's 99cm with the non release bindings that came with them. I feel that I am ready for a top of the line board (Revels) and depending on what length I go with will determine if I use release or non release bindings. I have never had a problem with the non release.
here are my stats: 5'4" 148lbs female; shoulder to ground carving & Spins are what I do most, I do not not have any luck in the powder or mush or chunks with my current M7's and would like to be able to skiboard better in those conditions for sure!
Also, I am ready for jumps with good landing stomps & do some rails; so a board that can handle that abuse. Again, I carve & spin the most right now am 5'4" 148lbs(yes that is holiday pounds added on! so normal 145lbs but winter time I stay 145-148lbs.

Do I go with:
90cm the Tansho(probably my favorite for grapics only)
98cm BWP's
101cm KTP's
105cm Revolts (might be longer than I want)
Then, Release or non release?

I'll get which ever everyone seems to think I should. :-)

Thank you all so very much!!!!!!

pinkkid
01-11-2008, 12:07 PM
The wideness of those KTP's... not too wide??????

airdonut41
01-11-2008, 11:27 PM
Haha there's no such thing as too wide at this point; it's all a matter of personal preference. Unfortunately (but not really) the Revolt Chicken and City are your only options left as of now; the rest are sold out with more coming in February (correct me if I'm wrong on that). I don't think the Revolts would be longer than you want; I've heard several people say that and once they've tried revolts they've been absolutely amazed. You might want to go with releasable bindings, just for the safety factor (As G says, 5'8" is the minimum recommended height for riding non release bindings).

Dan

pinkkid
01-12-2008, 12:46 AM
your right, Feb sometime is the magic timeframe for more boards in stock.... and I can wait. The Revolts have such good reviews and feedback and the Cities look alright to me... yeah I am leary of going longer than the 99cm for a skiboard, guess I feel they should be small, I always hated getting my traditional skis crossed but going too small is also a concern of mine for stability since I am a girl at 40. I don't work out but I can certainly hold my own and can be aggressive in competition, otherwise I am smooth and layed back on and off the slopes. so a board reflecting that would be cool and I do like non release bindings but am willing to go release on the right board.

Manlenium
01-12-2008, 12:39 PM
I cant get over the width of those badboys.

Is there a side by side of the condors and KTPs??:p

BrklynCarver
01-13-2008, 08:59 PM
Look at one of my posts, I think it was called "The Stork Has Arrived", I have side by side shots.

pinkkid
01-14-2008, 11:43 AM
wow, I checked out The Stork Has Arrived thread, thanks! very nice collection, I am a little jealous :-)
the KTP's for every day groom runs and just playing around non hard core in parks and off trail... I wonder i they'd be my choice... nooooo never mind I really don't want release bindings and wold have to with those, or feel that I should. The Tansho's... I think I wouldn't have fun off trail with them but would have a blast everywhere else.. I also love the steeps and carving and tha makes me lean towards the Revolts or BWP's... see we need like 4 boards!!!!!! ugh.

pinkkid
01-14-2008, 12:00 PM
Your carving technique to help eliinate the chattering... I fnd myself doing that alot on M7's... putting more weight on the outside leg rather than then inside. But true carving and getting the shoulder to ground would be putting the weight on that inside more so than the outside, right?
so, my big KTP question, can you still spin down the hill on them????

jjue
01-14-2008, 12:08 PM
pinkkid , I am not the best guy to ask about the spinning stuff as I mostly ride forward but do on ocassion spin around and ride switch , You probably do that stuff way better than me !!, ... For me , a rather amateur switch rider and spinner , the KTP seem really easy to spin around and ride switch ,,, seems just as nimble as the Canon M7 in that department ...

you can two footed carve real easy on the Ktp , deep lay over carves , or use the other more one footed carve , I like the two footed carve better when the snow is not super icy , and the one footed carve more on real steep icy slopes...

ps . just for reference sake .. I am bigger than you 6 ft tall , 198 lbs , but from the reviews here on SBOL , there are guys more your size who have ridden the KTP well as well ..

I do think the KTP lends itself to an aggressive carving style ...

pinkkid
01-14-2008, 12:33 PM
cool. oh the spins are easy, yo can get yourself dizzy! I am really working on those groud tricks but still like to do a easy box rail and jump.
I'll say this, going off trail yesterday, though it wasn't powder any more, I still had too work my M7 to keep the the tips up and stay stable... and pretty much aid for get it and continued over on thr grooms. I did start carving backwards, and I suprised that I could do it... where as my brother, more your size but on SJ 90'c just couldn't get it, but he did better off trail than I did.

We went to very mellow Badger Pass on a whim... we were at thr turn to Sierra Summit and I gave my brother a look and we went straight instead which goes to Yosemite! We really really did not want to deal with crowds, lines etc... so glad we made that decision!!! Sierra Summit is like the only place to ski for the valley and us coast skiiers and it gets extremely busy every single weekend and holiday are ridiculous!

The KTP's sound awsome, really they do, your review is good. But you don't ride then shorts, 90cm, right? Maybe I should ride my brothers for a day... if I can get em off of him long enough! LOL
OHHHHHHH.. I now have an iSkiBoard bumber sticker!!!!! Badger had a iSki sticker and a iBoard sticker and I cut & spliced em together!!!!! sweeet!!!!

pinkkid
01-14-2008, 12:46 PM
why no Revolt's in your board line up? Just curious.

jjue
01-14-2008, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by pinkkid
why no Revolt's in your board line up? Just curious.

I already had the ALP 110 , and in looking at another board , I thought the Revolt would be too similar , with just 5cm less in length but same side cut and was really looking for a shorter more manuevrable board to replace my Canon M7 , when I saw the KTP come out it seemed just the ticket .. .. I didn't get the BWP as I already had the Canon and I am not a park guy .and the BWP seemed similar to the Canon and I really wanted to try something way different .. .but around the same size ... I also really like the 2nd set of inserts on the KTP because I like riding set back in powder .

pinkkid
01-14-2008, 01:16 PM
I agree, the BWP are similar too our M7's... wish you rode the Tahnsho's for a review :0) oh well. sounds like you ride off trail and the steeps most????? I am starting to really like off trail(better board would make more enjoyable), and love the steeps and groomers. Hate ice, but these skiboards handle it very well. Also not big on Moguls, but I am pretty sure I'd give a wirl if I rode 75's or maybe with the Tanshos.
Only like parks for the fun of it and do te smaller jumps and box, but I totally have to be syked up for it!!LOL. Our M7's really are all around decent good boards, but seem so narrow and not as a good turning radius as all these newer boards out (trust me they spin like crazy still, try doing just 3 or 4 in row, doesn't matter on your hill choice as long as it is groomed, then let me now how the KTP's perfomed). I guess just doing a switch with ease tells me alot, but I wanna a full 360 several times to really know!
Speed they have, I can only imagine the speed of the 110-133's... that is why I still have my longies for when I really wanna fly... but even though I take my longies everytime.. I have only used them once in the last 4 years!!!! sad in a way, they are still like new.
Tansho's or Revolts's for me, I dunno yet wish I could just get both.