Thinking about supporting Line???

[Greco]

This is a post from another msg. board by an SBOLTeam II rider, you all know him. Man, what a job he does summing up all our thoughts about Line. Great job Kirk.


ok, there seems to be a big debate over how much line has sold out and abandoned our sport. I just want to share with everyone some of the reasons that i feel that we should no longer support line, since they don't support us.

10. "Because skiing needs a future." Line sees a future in skiing. They see no future in us and skiboarding. Anyone remember they old "Skiboarders Unite!" slogan??? Thats far gone from line...

9. Line has no touch with the skiboarding community. When was the last time you saw anyone from line post a message here, on skiboardmagazine, or skboardsonline [sic]*. Never. Seth from mix posts a lot. Tibor from canon has posted on SBOL. Anyone from line? no. They aren't intersted in us, we shouldn't be interested in them.

8. The idea of the line "pro" is a joke. How many pro skiboarders do you see line sponsoring? none. If you don't sponsor skiboarders, dont make a "pro" model.

7. The vast majority of lines sales are in skis, not skiboarding. This makes them put their resources into skiing, not skiboarding. When you buy from line, your money goes into progressing skiing.

6. Line doesn't acknowledge skiboarding. According to Jason Levinthal, in many emails, he views skiboards as nothing more than short skis. Are you riding short skis or skiboards?

5. The new flys are a joke. The origional flys were made to be a quality board for shorter riders. The new flys are exactly what the origional line wasn't. They are skinny solomon style boards. Retrogression, not progression. They suck.

4. Line no longer makes skiboard bindings. They have salomon bindings or their ski binding. No more ff cam. No more ff pro. The "freeflex" innovation they invented, they abandoned.

3. Line doesn't support the industry or the sport. Sure they are making skiboards. This is all they are doing. They sponsor no riders, no events, and no progression. On their website, they have videos of some very progressive skiing to help sell their skis. For the skiboards, they have old footage from camp of champions from like 1999. Is this progression? NO. Skiboarding has been progressing, they have ignored it.

2. The Reactor was not made for skiboarding. The reactor is a ski binding. They just altered their skiboards to handle their ski binding, while making competition impossible by changing the 4x4 standard they invented. This screws over customization and competition. It is a vertical monopoly: if you want the reactor, you must ride line.

1. Line is supposedly all about innovation. Remember "we have the technology?" Well, what good is technology if you dont use it? The Weapon was possibly the greatest breakthrough in our sport ever, but they abandoned it when they sold out and started going for profit alone. When line first came onto the scene, they wanted people to skiboard. There was no market. There was no demographics. There was no profit. Line quit making the weapon exclusively because it wasn't making enough profits. THIS IS SELLING OUT. There is no way around that. They actually kept making the weapon for a couple years, but they only sold it in japan where there was a larger market, screwing over all of us. -Kirk Thompson

[tommy]

hehe i was thinking about dealing with line until i realised how sh!t they where, I was talking to them and they told me that skiboarding had gone down hill since rollerblading had got smaller in the uk, well anyway in the last 5 years rollerblading has grown huge in the uk, so line are just trying to make excuses lol, im glad this topics come to light, just wait for allz to se this topic he will deffinatly have something to say about it. Oh yeh and line said to me "we need more companies supporting the sport" i though hmmm just like you do yeh?

[Courtney]

Some of the people's reactions to this topic on the other board are funny as hell.

[tommy]

i know they got really offended its amazing! :D

[allz]

Well, this is it, how i said in "other" forum, Kirk has done realy good thing.......i have no such language abilities in english and maybe i am not such competent, but i would say i am TOTALY agree with Kirk's 10 reasons..

hmm...yes Courtny - there was funny thing some ppl dont understand and think in some crazy way to LINE direction!!!

Tommy knows i am some BIG f***** LINE hater!
But i dont know how it comes, i think i just can clearly see in realy world those 10 reasons about LINE-thats why i am angry to them who dont see it...

[kirk]

Thanks g. It just makes me mad that people don't realize that we need a self supporting industry that is by skiboarders, for skiboards.

I also like how they censor skiboardsonline over there.

[tommy]

yeh i saw that **************.com :D its stupid! so is it just canon and mix, damn we need more companys..........

[Courtney]

Wouldn't want to support the compitition. A lot of people on the other forum don't even know about SBOL and if they did SBOL would probably get some more business, thats why the censor it.

[allz]

ohh..i think there is some rules or what that they put ********, and when i reply to that i put that shit *** too, ahh....next time i will do like i think and want!

[tommy]

its stupid! When i have my shop i will say to my customers that if i dont have the stock sbol probably will and greco is a cool guy so will always be happy to help you out, in fact ive already said that to someone. Im not in it for the money im in it to provide a service to skiboarders of europe, and i love skiboarding so i like dealing with it :) but skiboards.com sometimes doesnt feel true to the sport like sbol does. We need to blank companys like line and all these are crap companies and start getting real companies into the sport like mix and canon. This is what will promote the sport and make it big. Its exactly like rollerblading in this country, it started of small with shit companies making them then more people started coming in because skates had got better, more designs and more companys had come in. When i first started skating there must have been about 6 companys now theres over 50 and thats in the space of 5 years. I think Skiboarding has began those 5 years and soon will be big. but thats just my opinion.

[allz]

oh, i see there is reply to KIRK's post in ****other forum calling skiboardsdamnpromotingline.com , again and again....all the same talking shit--...ok, not about that now!

about what Tommy said:

i love the sport too, skiboards,snow,winter,mountains,all the idea od\f all that!!! and i like if u can go out and ride skiboards with ya friends...its incedible:), so like i havent here much friends who ride skiboards and here is anyone who rides REAL company skiboards--except McShane - so there is only 2 - me and McShane....
....so i was thinking and finding ways to make it all to grow..

AND, i found it, i got help from Canon and i will make DEMO days and i found some INLINE pro riders who i will test for urban skiboarding abd much more thing, so , i will start to promote the skiboarding from Latvia, and there is Estonia too--which have some resorts, i will be there too and tell to all of ppl there what is skiboards-let them try them and so...i will be maybe in Europe next year..so, i am starting it,and it seems it will be BIG, like Tommy said!

..its just the BEGINNING ;)

[kirk]

rollerblading is exactly what i would compare it to. it got big quick because every company that could make skates started doing it, but it shot down just as fast. now its huge, and nearly the entire industry is skater owned. same thing happened with skateboarding, i believe, in the late 80s/early 90s. we have to own our sport. we can't have outsiders determining our fate.

[Jeff Miles]

amen,
to that kirk...that is why im starting a new brand of skiboards soon....we (riders) cant let some big shot determine the fate of skiboards....so rider owned companies are the best...example: canon and mix

[dfn_doe]

I was just thinking, with all this talk about how skiboarder run companies are the best way to go about doing things, it occurs to me that there are probably enough people on this forum that would be willing to pitch in 100-150 bucks to have our own boards manufactured. We'd all just need to talk out what specs would we want and then collect the money as "pre-order" money and have a batch made up. I mean I know that not all the companies that are around or have been around owned their own manufacturing facilities and/or tooling, which means to some degree this is already how things worked, except we would be buying at wholesale instead of paying money to a retailer who bought them from a designer who had them manufactured by a manufacturer. Should allow skiboarders to get some top notch gear for moderate prices and would allow us to spec 'em out however we want. Fer instance they could have dual pattern binding mounts to work with standard 4 bolt as well as the new line 4 bolt pattern... Just a thought...

[tommy]

its a good idea but i think getting boards on a production line is alot more complicated then we may think, im not sure but i dont think it would work, and anyway i think skiboards are a good price anyway.....

[Roussel]

snowjam doesnt really support the sport either but people seem to have no problem suppoerting them. not trying to defend line or anything just being observant...

[PureVenom]

It is very costly...I have been tryin for a couple years to raise the capital to get my boards and clothing going. The molds are what cost the major dough(like thousands each) and you WILL go through a few to get it right. The actual production of the boards depends on how many pairs you are planning to make. I am trying very hard to get my company rollin and when I do I hope I will be a welcome addition to the skiboarding world. A skiboarder supported industry is the only way to ensure that we ALWAYS have quality products and that our sport pushes boundries and NEVER!!!!!!!! dies out. Despite what weenies like line would love to see happen. We just have to keep sponsoring events and have them at more high profile resorts.

[allz]

hmmm...yes, why nobody was talking about that? that is interesting question!!! what SnowJam do for riders out there...here!!!???

[garagesale2]

good point..SnowJam isn't a big supporter at all BUT they are still making quality products..not worthless pieces of shit products like Line manufacturers now...

p.s this is just my OPINION no one get all po-ed @ me..i can think wut i want

peace,
al

[Roussel]

Line skiboards are way under rated, the Pro skiboards appart from the bindings are still great boards, the x-flys are good quality but just dont have aggressive measurements.

[kirk]

Yea, I definately agree the pros are still good boards. The same as the mike nick from yesteryear. The difference for me is that they are no longer skiboarder owned, and I have no respect for their mass exodus to skiing.

[matthew]

that and line is trying to say they where never involved with skiboarding and only made skiboards to progress skiing

[marcolo86]

Originally posted by PureVenom
We just have to keep sponsoring events and have them at more high profile resorts.

This is one of the reasons why we decided to have our contest in MDC. It is one of the (if not the best) resorts in the country, so exposure is max.

If you want to take advantage of this in some way let me know, I'd be glad to help.

[kirk]

Originally posted by matthew
that and line is trying to say they where never involved with skiboarding and only made skiboards to progress skiing

EXACTLY.

[JapSpec]

Yea Im kinda p'd that Line went that route and such and such.

But I still say make their skiboards. And all those shitty ass companies make their skiboards. Why?

Because the more companies out there making skiboards as of Now. The more exposure skiboarding WILL get.

for example.

the aggressive inline industry.
Skater owned companies: Remedyz, Deshi, Razors
and then there's the shitty ones on ebay you could find.
why do the shitty ones get made? Cause the ones without knowledge will just jump onto them cause they're cheap.
Btw I don't consider ROLLERBLADE to be SKATER owned. It may have skater INPUT towards it models of skates, but they still develop fitness skates and such.

It's a way to start off I guess. I still see people ride salomon skiboards and such. And when they DO see other skiboards
whether they feel like progressing or not they'll buy something more expensive.

Same thing goes with Snowboarding. It is more popular now than ever. Those that don't know what to look for just buy a COOL looking snowboard or a name that they know that manufacture other sporting goods such as Salomon. Salomon Skates, skis, snowboards.

In the market of helping our industry progress, we just gotta accept these dumbass companies. Yet for those of us that do have the knowledge and are progressing every year. just keep on supporting the skiboarder owned companies. Spread the word and show the ignorant buyers the light toward skiboarder owned companies.
I can't wait to ride Mix Boards

slam a few beers, lay down a few hammers and just go all out.
:D

[garagesale2]

i was a lil harsh in my earlier post..i agree line used to make some bad ass boards..i got a lil excited and called their boards worthless pieces of shit ...by no meens did i meen that at all..in fact i sold a pair of Line Pros to a friend of mine a few seasons back ( i thought they were great boards..just a little worn out...lol i bought them used my 1st season as a back up pair for if i didnt feel like riding my SnowJam 90s)

i would like to hear what others have to say about the whole SnowJam thing...

peace,
al..

[kirk]

On the SnowJam thing...

Personally, I think that snowjam is fulfilling an essential part of the sport. They are the only manufacturer that makes cheap boards that are actually decent quality. They recognize things like the four hole pattern, so they allow for upgrading. Since you can upgrade, it makes buying new better boards a lot more economically feasable and more likely to happen. If they just buy some other cheap boards, they are stuck and have to buy bindings and boards at once if they want to get new boards. Not everyone has enough money to get the best boards when they start skiboarding, so there has to be some companies makin cheap ones. Sure, I'd rather see a skiboarder owned company doin this, but at least snowjam is doin it, so people don't get stuck buin salomon or some garbage if they want cheap boards.

[garagesale2]

http://www.greekpeak.net/content/lineskiboards.asp

interesting article...

[tommy]

ok this is what someone said in the other forum

"it is seriously such a mixed opinion of line. either you absolutley hate them, or you agree that line helps skiboarding continue. We have to realize something... we might be a dieing breed. Skiboarding does have a ways to go as far as innovations go, and thats why we need companies like line. They make enough money from twintip to be able to invest in releasable bindings. alot of retailers wont sell skiboards because of nonreleasable bindings. How is mix progress when most retailer wont sell them?! how is that excatly helping our sport."

I just thought i would point that last bit out.... how is mix helping the sport, shall i just crawl into a hole and cry now? it has to be one of the stupidist things ive ever heard, no effence to anyone if you do weirdly agree with them:D

[Roussel]

good news, Line has decided to make a limited number of their new Pro boards with standard 4x4 bindings option. they also still make skiboard bags and their slope packs can carry skiboards like the old lunch lady packs.

im not a big fan of line just trying to even the score out a little :)

[garagesale2]

Have they read the boards? I think so..they prob saw all these posts and freaked out..."no more skiboard profits= less money for our ski program"??

On a happier note..good for them..maybe they are making a comeback from the dark side? Quite a questionable thing to say..

peace,
al

ps this post sucks..o well deal with it

[Roussel]

i think the limited number they made of boards was from pressure from the owner of "the other site" and their bags have always been skiboard friendly.

[garagesale2]

hahha i like that man 'the other site'....wut do u meen by bags? if you are referring to skiboard bags which i am sure you are i agree...a friend of a friends has one..very nice

peace,
al

ps..i am feeling a line comeback by the way...its seems far stretched i know..but i have faith


BELIEVE!

[PureVenom]

I'm not so sure line "making a comeback" would be a great thing. It's not like they would do some miraculous thing and all the sudden skiboarding is at the forefront of snowsports. It's gonna take a long time and skiboarder owned companies to really get it going off the chain. Realize how long it takes...skiing has been around forever since what...the 30's maybe earlier? And snowboarding has been around since the early to mid 70's. Its just been in the last 10 to 15 years that this "snowboarding" thing has gotten out of controll popular. Skiboarding will catch up and surpass all of them with time. Again as long as we the riders support our rider owned companies.

[garagesale2]

I agree..support for the ride owned companies is hella important..but i do also think that if line put some money into the sport(i.e. hosting contests, sponsoring events, etc) would be a big boost..

peace,
al

[PureVenom]

Sure line putting money in for contests and stuff would be good but our rider owned companies could do the same thing and have some pretty huge events. The thing you have to remember is that line is not JUST about skiboarding. They rely on twin tip skis for the major income of the company. Therefore the events are not going to just be skiboarding and they would obviously be promoting twin tip because that is their bread and butter. Don't get me wrong I think line made some great products in the past but they have put all their eggs in a different basket now. If all skiboard companies and clothing companies,magazines,etc...pulled their cash togather you would be suprised at what kind of event you can have. Resorts are usually pretty cool because it's free advertising,and they make money as well so....We are going to see some great things for skiboarding within the next couple seasons. Things will start getting bigger and better. There is a lot of talent amongst the people on this site and strong dedication to see skiboarding get the respect and recognition it deserves.

[matthew]

i got some big shit planed for next season boys and girls

[allz]

yes - i feel BIG things will happen too!

skiboarding will be bigger and bigger...!!!

[tommy]

within the next 3 seasons i think we will see atleast!!! 3 more core skiboarding companys, just you wait.......

[PureVenom]

yep!!! you gonna see a lot of cool stuff....I know of one company but I'm sure there will be more. Its a GREAT thing to see so many people excited about new companies. :D

[tommy]

NOOOOOO. i have a story to tell you about strange things happening at amazon.com, how much would you be willing to pay for LINE boards. THIS MUCH? :eek:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0006BC5JW/qid=1100393317/sr=8-10/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i10_xgl200/103-7643491-1777435?v=glance&s=sporting-goods&n=507846

This is very very very very very wrong, just to wrong for words.

[Cameron]

thats horrible.........and look at the list price its 648.00 down to 448.00 thats fcuking stupid

[Courtney]

what?? theres no way any skiboard retail price is 600$.

[Jeff Miles]

THAT IS SOOO FUCKED!!!!!

[marcolo86]

Well the Line 98 pro board with the Reactor binding is sold at exactly the same price in some on-line stores...

[tommy]

yeh its not just amazon its LINE, blame LINE! lol

[allz]

its becasue LINE make only money, not something good for riders...(i mean skb)

[phillycore]

Just my personal opinion here and trying to be open minded about it all...

In every business venture you are going to have top of the line things and entry level quality products. Most companies shoot to hit one aspect of the market as they want their company name associated with something .

Let's look at cars for example...

Mercedes Benz is obviously a top of the line product, yet they make a lower class line it's still considered a top of the line product.

Hyundai is obviously an entry level manufacturer.... they specialize in making cars that are of quality (that's debateable though) yet they fit into a budget that the average person can afford.


You would probably never see a 80k Hyundai because noone would ever buy it, just as you would probably never see a 20k Mercedes Benz as it would reflect negatively on their higher end product lines.


So transfer this into skiboarding... (not price aspect but mainly look at quality aspect)

Mix, Canon is targeting the Hardcore, true skiboarder who wants only the best materials and workmanship in their products. They want their boards to last and stand up to extreme tricks, jumps, and conditions.

K2, Fischer, etc.. These companies noticed that there is an interest in skiboarding / snowblading and they want to stick their nose into it and try to snag some of the profit. They target newbies, and skiers that want to try something different. They more than likely will not get repeat customers more than twice (if ever) and they imply don't care. They want to put out a basic product that will last for the average person who is using them because skis are merely too long for them to control, or for those that want to try something different. Those that purchase these products and do in fact like them, will find them extremely inferior and move into the higher end market.

Line, Saloman ... These companies are out to make money! They want the rental market, where they do mass business from ski shops, and ski resorts who rent their boards out to anyone who wants to try them out. Saloman would be the low end of the rental market and the ones you see the most on the slopes. Line is the higher end of this market. They want to produce boards of quality that will appeal to those that use their skis and want to try something different. They want to sell as much as possible and want a lot for their product. They use their brand name to do this, however they are better than the K2's, and Fischer's of the market as they still maintain a quality product and aren't merely just using their brand name to sell.

Groove, Snowjam... These companies are marketing products that fall somewhere between the Line, Saloman's and the Mix, Canon's. Their quality is good but not up to the standards of Mix, Canon yet they appeal to those that want the best bang for the buck. The skiboarders that want a lot of product for their money, yet are willing to sacrifice some quality along the way. Groove didn't originally start in this catagory but seems to have worked it's way down into it by mass producing and letting 2nd's fall into the general marketplace.


So with that all being said.... I think Line definitely has a nitch in the skiboarding industry and to bash them would be wrong. Sure I'd like to see them focus more on skiboarding and quality rather than profit, but the bottom line is that they are a business and they want to make money. Their quality is still there, yet the boards do not appeal to the hardcore skiboarder any longer. They appeal to the skiers and snowboarders and entry level skiboarders who want a good product with a decent brand name attached to it. They are looking at skiboards and skiboarding as short skis and not a seperate entity. While for skiboarding it's not going to individualize the sport, it's not going to steer people away from it either. Their future innovations will more than likely be things they develop for their skis (their largest marketplace) and adapted to work for their skiboards as well. It's not optimum by any means, but it's something.
Something is better than nothing in this case.

Companies that specialize strictly in skiboarding (Mix / Canon) will have the upper hand as far as growing the sport, and innovations for the sport. So supporting those should be your first option. (this rings especially true in the primary marketplace as the profits go into the hands of those designing the products. The secondary marketplace has no bearing on the manufacturer as their money has already been made...therefore if you want a Line, Snowjam, etc.. type board than you should buy it on a secondary marketplace where the manufacturer has already made their profit and you are not contributing to that. or just don't buy them at all)

Agree or disagree... that's my .02

John

[kirk]

The thing that makes line different from another salomon is that they were origionally out to be a core skiboarder owned company. When I first started, they were THE skiboarder owned company. They were where mix and canon are now. Since they changed their direction, they became a salomon and, more importantly, sold out. If this was their intent from the beginning, that would be one thing, but they still try to maintain the image that they are a core skiboard company and great for the sport, while producing worse products than they did 5 years ago.