Lacroix Carbon 125 -First Day on Snow

[jjue]

Today got a chance to ride my new Lacroix Carbon 125 in firm steep icy groomers.
This is absolutely the BEST carving experience I have ever had on ANY snowsliding tool .
Thanks to Ed (Brklyncarver) we have a lot of information about how boards are constructed and what goes into them . Whatever Lacroix has done to put this board together has been simply magic .

If you have ridden a modern wide bodied skiboard that you think carves great ,like the KTP 110 , the Summit 110 woodie , the Marauder or even the Sherpa as I have . This board is an order of magnitude BETTER then all of them on firm snow .

This baby is a heavy thing , especially with my powder plate and touring riser , and I am sure that I will prefer my lighter , softer boards for the backcountry , but on a steep icy groomer there is absolutely no equal for me . I was turning a few heads today because I was riding this fat short thing which by all measure should chatter like hell on todays conditions . In fact all the skiers were on narrow slalom long skis , snowboarders were having a hard time holding an edge .
By all conventional ski wisdom you need to ride narrow stuff on steep icy slopes . But we don't ride no stinkin skis :)! We ride skiboards and them things have deep juju magic ! The Lacroix has a mean , heavy dose of magic .

ok , this thing is NOT for beginners , or non aggressive riders.. it is seriously stiff , not so stiff as my Summit 110 woodie , but more then the Marauder , Revel 8 , or Spruce boards. The camber is higher than the Marauder and needs to have an aggressive rider and maybe a rider like myself with some heft to get the thing to flex properly , but flex it does ,more so then my Woodie on aggressive high speed turns .

A few pointers , in this kind of condition ride the board dead center mounted. It is totally balanced like that and perfect right out of the box , ( all I did was throw a bit of hot wax over the factory wax job )
Inserts for the Spruce riser are perfectly done and fit my powder plate perfectly . Whatever you do , do not use poles. I tried poles for one run and they felt totally out of place and bizarre. This thing is absolutely one hundred percent a perfect center mount skiboard. It begs to be ridden hard like your 110 or 99 . Yeah poles help some in moguls and perhaps I might use them when I set the binding back in deep pow , but for high speed carving on steep icy groomers , ABSOLUTELY 100% no poles for full enjoyment of this incredible ride. I had no problem skating it around .

The board does not like to go slow ... it yearns for speed and once you get it up to speed it is easy as pie to turn . It is the very fastest skiboard I have EVER ridden in this kind of steep icy slope and yet is totally controllable . You drive into a turn and both edges hook up like no tommorrow but not too much ( relaxed 9m side cut ) and do not give up their edge hold until you drive off to the new turn. The tips smoothly engage and you can feel the tips AND tail just whip you right around to the next turn . Every thing is smooth , and instantaneous. The ride I would classify as firm with maxium road feel . It is NOT uncomfortably rocky even in firm conditions and feels more damped then my 110 woodie . It is a very , very different ride from the Marauder , while essentially the same shape feels like a totally different board with a decidely softer flex and more damped ride.

I have never ridden a skiboard with the precision of this board at high speed , maybe it is a combination of the 125 length , the carbon fiber layup , the mass. I don't know but this board is the most rock solid skiboard at speed that I have ever ridden . When you lay it over on edge, I get the weirdist feeling that I can feel the edge like an ice skate with my feet and then the board will absolutely instantly respond to what I want to do with no lag or hesitation . It is way amazing to me to have this degree of precision and control at high speed. In fact I was probably riding faster and in more control then with any snow sliding device I have ever used . I could throw any type of turns I wanted, low to the ground knuckle draggers , or stand up fall line turns . I could feel rebound or pop turns on short fall line turns ,everything in total control . . I was glad I was wearing a helmet and on releasable bindings .
The board seemed to keep talking to me .. .HEY BUDDY what the hell are you holding back for ... dial up the speed .. . Shred man !! I kept thinking , jesus , I am going to slide out or lose an edge or chatter , but no nothing .. the ride is totally completely out of this world stable , right on each edge as you go edge to edge furiously down the slope. Rather scary , how stable actually !

Ok , so this baby can go downhill directionally , but a true skiboard can spin and do 360's , so I threw those in as well , and it totally scared me it wanted to take me on a backwards fakie ride at high speed and was showing me that I could control those edges backwards as well .. .NO I SAID .... I AM DEFINTELY NOT READY FOR THIS !!!!!! 360'S were also a piece of cake ... yes , this was not as buttery as the Marauder that has a lower camber but for me it has the perfect combination of directional stability and yet ready for all the ground spins and tricks .

No I don't think this will be park board .. way too stiff, too heavy , but for shredding steep carvers , there is NO BETTER in my book.. I will have to see how it performs set back in deep pow . I might prefer a softer flexing board like my maruader for that .. and absolutely nothing can beat my Sherpa in deep pow but for CARVING , the answer is most defintely , the Lacroix Carbon 125 .. one hell of a rocking skiboard in my book !!!

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/jjue/HPIM0813.jpg

[t21]

wow! heck of a review on that jjue, sounds like a real carver,especially on icy grooms. you said that its heavy? heavier than 120 with the spruce bindings? thought that carbon fiber would be a little bit lighter. although its 5cm longer. anyway, i could wish my 120 was holding edges on icy grooms like the lacroix did. my 120 was sliding down on those icy spots on those steep trails but did not really slide me out, thank god! thats a long way down:D well i hope the deep powder review will be great too cuz i would like to know if you will change your board from the marauder to Lacroix as your one board quiver:D

[jjue]

Yup the Lacroix board is seriously heavy compared to the Spruce boards
You use the same Spruce binding/riser on all the three boards so
here are the bare board weights per G's SBOL skiboard comparison chart
5.2 lbs Spruce 120
5.75 lbs Sherpa 130
I don't know the Marauder weight but it is pretty light weight maybe somewhere around the Sherpa weight
the Lacroix 125 is 6.5 lbs , while the carbon fiber top sheet is light , it has a heavy wood core , fiberglass lay up as well .

I don't notice the weight much going down hill but certainly would notice the weight going up hill , so you won't probably see me on the Lacroix in the backcountry . also backcountry is mostly soft snow , so will probably be on Maruader and the Sherpa there ,

[t21]

oh,that is heavy. only the top sheet is CF eh'. i guess thats why your sticking with the other 2 boards for BC. my bad. but i would still like to read your review on Lacroix on deep powder with setback bindings though:)

[Manlenium]

Great review as always. I like the sounds of the firmness. But that extra 25cm.......Hmmm.

I am getting a pair of Lacroix 99s sent to my door. I might pick up a longer pair next season, for the heavy pow days. Break my sub 100 code of ethics. That carbon fiber looking oh so sexy...:p

[Greco]

those weights are per pair so a pair of lacroix 125's weigh 3/4 of a pound more then a pair spruce sherpas. that's not much is it?

g

[jjue]

Your right G , not that much compared to the Sherpa , more so compared to the Spruce 120 , which remains sort of the benchmark of the original longboard skiboard. I don't think it makes all that much difference downhill ,....Climbing , every little bit counts , just like mountain bikers are trying to pare ounces down on their cross country bike frames , we backcountry climbing types are always trying to keep a few ounces off our feet so we can beat our buddies to the pow stash :)!

[PedroUK]

Jjue, what a great review! This sounds like my kind of skiboard. Gawd... I might have to buy it but money is tight at the moment.

How does the Lacroix 125 hold up to scratches and dings?

[jjue]

Originally posted by PedroUK
....
How does the Lacroix 125 hold up to scratches and dings?

Well , not too sure , as this only 1st day out and I was pretty careful not to bang it around too much ... as I love that beautiful carbon look , but some folks stepped on my boards or banged into them in the lift line and they look fine ...

[sempai]

Well crap! From all the good things I've been reading about the Lacroix boards, I want to buy all three. :)

[wjeong]

Jack,

Nice! How does the weight and size feel on your feet? Same as the Sherpa or does it feel smaller?

Wendell

[jjue]

Originally posted by wjeong
Jack,

Nice! How does the weight and size feel on your feet? Same as the Sherpa or does it feel smaller?

Wendell

Weight is same or feels a bit heavier then the Sherpa on the foot , , but it feels smaller and manuverable and more skateable because of the smaller foot print and straighter profile ..

[BrklynCarver]

Damn you Jack! Now I gotta seriously consider getting the Lacroix 125 Carbons.

[Bill]

Originally posted by jjue
[B]Today got a chance to ride my new Lacroix Carbon 125 in firm steep icy groomers.
This is absolutely the BEST carving experience I have ever had on ANY snowsliding tool .

Thanks for the great review, Jack. That makes me even more anxious to get somemore "ice time" in on these.

When I rode the 125's last week, it was on evil, rock-solid rutted-up ice, just the worst. The speed these are capable of had me a little leery. I found myself edging into a skidding semi-hockey stop at every direction change to check speed on the steep parts of the blacks. I never detected a hint of chatter or skip and felt totally in control which is very reassuring. I rode these most of the evening but did take a single run on the Sherpas for comparison. I found myself being a little bolder on those, probably due to better familiarity.

To me the remarkable thing is how well both of these did in rotten conditions...the opposite of where you'd think they would excel.

I had little or no problem going fakie, skating, spinning, etc. on the Lacroix's, they're a bit less awkward in that department then the jumbo-tip Sherpas. They do handle amazingly like conventional skiboards.

Bill

[jjue]

Originally posted by t21
oh,that is heavy. only the top sheet is CF eh'. i guess thats why your sticking with the other 2 boards for BC. ......


Got an interesting email from Ludovic Lacroix about the construction of the Carbon 125 and possible directions for the future ... I actually like the Duraclear protective cover over the carbon fiber ... I think without it I would have a cow with all those folks stepping on my skiboards or banging them in the lift line :)! also I am not sure I am quite ready to spend way big bucks like some skiers do for full carbon fiber board ( full carbon skis are over 1000 bucks a pair ! :)!

Ludovic Lacroix wrote:
"actually we could get a super light pair with the
same flex and rigidity, take out all the fiberglass and change by full
carbon under and over the core, also core is a vertical laminated ash
wood, could be changed by a super light epicea wood. One other thing would
be to take out the Duraclear, plastic over the carbon to protect the
surface, quite heavy... After it's just a matter of cost."

Just to give you an idea of what skiers are paying ... here is a link to the Goode carbon powder ski which is all the rage in the long ski world .. the 163 cm version weighs just under 5 lbs a pair . and costs 1200 dollars a pair .

http://www.goode.com/skisallmtn.htm#c116

[BrklynCarver]

Jack,

Would you be able to ask Ludovic Lacroix how much would it cost to manufacture a 110 skiboard with:

- titanal topsheet
- full carbon under the topsheet instead of fiberglass
- epicea wood or bamboo core
- ptex-4000 base
- vibrachoc on tip and tail
- PNS rubber
- ABS Sidewall Construction
- Stainless Steel 4cm x 4cm Binding Inserts

[jjue]

Sure thing Ed , I fired off an email today .. I am afraid of the answer though ... my wife checks our credit card bills and if suddenly a 1000 dollar purchase showed up for a pair of tiny skis (that is what she calls my skiboards) , I think I would be toast and end up auctioning off all my skiboards :)!!

[pinkkid]

you guys just crack me up! love ya!
Great review, much appreciated! Looking forward to what they bring out for next season and season's to come! I'n bound to get a long skiboard yet!

[BrklynCarver]

I just want to see how much it would cost to create such a skiboard, and if it's not too expensive, I might actually get them to build it for me. I think that particular materials construction might be the best combination of tech to made a fairly light yet super tough skiboard. The carbon fiber instead of fiberglass would reduce the weight while the titanal topsheet adds dampening and toughness. Just carbon fiber along can still lend to weak points between the fiberweaves, but adding the titanal reinforces the entire skiboard and make stresses distributed evenly.

[pinkkid]

not a 115cm or 120cm? why 110cm?

[BrklynCarver]

110 is my ideal skiboard length, so I wouldn't want to mess with the dimensions/sidecut of a proven product. Going to a 115 may work better, but I wouldn't know how the change in length would change widths/radius.

[pinkkid]

makes sense! don't mess with a good thing! If it's not broke, don't fix it!

[valmorel]

There is the binding issue too. 110 is thought to be just about the limit for a fixie binding.

[pinkkid]

I def do release bindings on anything longer than the Revolts for me.

[jjue]

Originally posted by BrklynCarver
Jack,

Would you be able to ask Ludovic Lacroix how much would it cost to manufacture a 110 skiboard with:

- titanal topsheet
- full carbon under the topsheet instead of fiberglass
- epicea wood or bamboo core
- ptex-4000 base
- vibrachoc on tip and tail
- PNS rubber
- ABS Sidewall Construction
- Stainless Steel 4cm x 4cm Binding Inserts

Ed, Ludovic Lacroix is the most amazing guy , he replys right away ... so it looks like you can have your board made direct from the factory for 500 bucks us dollars ( if you use their current 110 titanial mold ) . which aint bad ! Here is his full answer :

"Hello Jack,

Of course it is possible to manufacture custom skiboards in shape, flex
and construction. The following pair would be possible without any
problem, if you are looking for super light we can, the most heavy thing
will be the titanal but it gives a super torsion.

It is the same with my actual ski production, custom can be in 2 ways

- basic custom : we keep an existing mold and modify the construction to
fit the customer requirement in term of flex, client is free to choose
materials such as carbon, kevlar, zylon, fiberglass, dyneema, titanal,
ash, spruce or other woods species, type of sole...,
- full custom : the client send us its requirements in term of shape
(sidecut or radius) + lenght, the type of construction with its weight and
height, type of finish, its decoration.. then we design the ski, submit it
to the client for approval then build the skis.

the first option would be around 500USD and the second 800-900USD. These
price would be for skiboards direct from the factory.

If you have more detailed questions, let me know,

Best,

LL "

[Khali]

Awesome review :)

I suffer many weeks of ultra-hard snow each winter so i was thinking on buying something with more grip than my alu summit nomads.

Now i know i need one of this lacroix longboards!! I have to try it by myself.

The possibility of getting custom skiboards made looks very interesting...it is maybe possible to make a skiboard with the grip of a slalom ski...2 titanal sheets for max torsional stiffness...its great, you can make the perfect skiboard for each country.

[pinkkid]

very good! Brooklyn Carver... ya going for it???

[sb_bob]

Jack ... great information. Customized skiboards ... that's a pretty exciting idea.

So Lacroix looks like they may be interested in making skiboards for the long run. That's great news. My favorite board is the 110 medium-flex woody of a few year ago that they made, so I know they can make a great board.

Bob

[BrklynCarver]

WOW!! Thanks Jack!!!

I gotta research into the other materials, but I am extremely tempted now to get myself a custom skiboard by Lacroix using their existing molds with the materials I want on the inside.

[Mark]

kirk thompson boards are 101cm.
:D

[BrklynCarver]

Jack,

Can you email Ludovic Lacroix and ask permission to share his email with me? I think I know what I want, but have questions to ask about the materials and his experience with them, plus the cost of one material vs. other. Big part to ask would be comparison of the wood core materials available. Also, would be interested about what I might be able to do graphically on the titanal topsheets.

Since I prefer a stiff skiboard, I would want to design a skiboard that is as stiff as the woodies, but lighter and tougher. I am leaning towards:

- using the existing 110cm mold
- bamboo wood core
- wood core wrapped in carbon fiber instead of fiberglass
- carbon fiber is reinforced with zylon, either a full sheet or beams (two beams that run the length of the skiboard, plus two more in a cross pattern from tip to tail)
- titanal topsheet
- ptex-4000 transparent base
- vibrachoc on tip and tail
- PNS rubber
- ABS Sidewall Construction
- Stainless steel 4cm x 4cm binding inserts
- Full perimeter Rockwell 48 steel edges

Graphically, definitely want the Lacroix name, on both topsheet and base, Skiboards printed on the topsheet, Serial Number 1 of 1, and some other yet to be determined graphic.

[jjue]

Ed , I sent you a PM . ..
Jack

[Manlenium]

Thats a tall order. I am down for that exact board in a 99 length.....that thing will be so stiff.:D

[jjue]

For those interested in factory direct custom one of a kind skiboards for themselves here is the contact information and procedure .

Contact information for custom Lacroix skiboards is

info@skislacroix.com

specify custom skiboards in your subject line and the email will go to either Ludovic or his partner who handle all custom orders and they will contact you back to discuss your requirements.

[Bill]

Originally posted by BrklynCarver
Also, would be interested about what I might be able to do graphically on the titanal topsheets.


Ed, check out the Lacroix website and take a look at their assorted skis...some have an engine-turned metal, likely aluminum-alloy topsheet. I bet they could this on the titanal you have in mind. That jewelled finish is about the sharpest thing I've ever seen.

BTW, thanks for sharing all the tech info.

Bill

[valmorel]

I figured that scraped finish would appeal to you Bill :-). I like the finish called Diamond, mixture of carbon and wood.

[BrklynCarver]

Yup, I've been looking at their designs, these are the ones that I've been looking at graphics-wise.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc61/ewyho8114/espace.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc61/ewyho8114/1081281128_022df6685b.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc61/ewyho8114/0607_lxs1.jpg

Using the topsheet edging details of the middle graphic, the Allure, with the central graphic being the brushed metal of the first, the Espace, then the raised logo of the last one, the LXS.

[Bill]

Originally posted by valmorel
I figured that scraped finish would appeal to you Bill :-). I like the finish called Diamond, mixture of carbon and wood.

Valmorel, you have good taste...I hunted around on their website and found the Diamond finish...yikes, that's sharp!

Ed, I don't know how you'll ever be able to pick...between the jewelled metal, natural wood finishes and carbon, one's more attractive than the next.

Someone at Lacroix has an eye for classy finishes. If I had to pick one I might even go for the all-wood "Authentic", but it's a tough call.

Bill

[valmorel]

I think it would be really cool if we could come up with some very refined skiboards through this menu approach, that could maybe then end up as production models for folks who dont want to spend quite so much. I cant ever remember having a manufacturer being prepared to build skis/skiboards this way.

[BrklynCarver]

Jack,

You ain't kidding about how fast Ludovic reponds. I already got specs and recommendations for changes in material for a custom skiboard and pricing and turaround time!

[pinkkid]

we all are gonna be eager to see what you end up with! cool deal!!!!! have fun with it. And yes it would be very awsome to be able to order skiboards this way with any company really. The molds and materials are all there, just a matter of putting what with what etc.
I dig the wood & diamonds look!

[eyesokman]

Going back to jjue's brilliant review, they sound like the perfect sliding devices for european conditions.
As for valmorel, didn't know he had such good taste:D .
I DO know that now he can play about with having his own specs made up, this forum is going to be getting a lot of reviews!

[hyperguy]

Is Ludovic Lacroix still making skiboards? I saw they have a line of skis for the 2009-2010 winter but the lacroix website is still down. Does he still do custom jobs?

[wjeong]

Is Ludovic Lacroix still making skiboards? I saw they have a line of skis for the 2009-2010 winter but the lacroix website is still down. Does he still do custom jobs?

Hi Hyperguy,

I emailed Ludo back in April. He plans to make skiboards this coming season and sell them thru Greco. He will be protyping some longer boards in the 135/140 range.


Wendell

[DennisEvans]

Aren't anything that is longer than 110 typically classified as short skis? I would even go so far as to say that the Spruce 120 are skiboards but they don't even have all the typical characteristics of skiboards? Proabably a stupid question but I see skis getting shorter and shorter and skiboards getting longer and longer, I would really hate to see the lines blur and then merge where there is no difference between skiboards and skis other than the fact that line will retract their statement that they were never involved in skiboards and return to saying that they make only the best skiboards. I'm sorry but I will not call anything past the sherpa a skiboard esspecially if it isn't:
Twin Tipped
Same Tip height
Center mounted
Insert style bindings
Pro riders don't ride them

I know the last requirement is a bit shallow but I really don't want to see the two communities merge or have skiboarding completely die. Sorry for the jack guys but I feel that going past the sherpa in lenght just cuases problems with defining your sport, and I feel that we have no place to take over a skiers market target area for new school skiers.

/rant

[valmorel]

You know, Jjue, Wejong and I discussed this a lot at Shredfest, and yes, we came to the same conclusion as you. 130 is about the practical limit for a skiboard. There has been thousands of words written over the years regarding what is basically a definition of skiboards as opposed to skis, but the simple fact is, jump on a skiboard and it has a special feel that is quite different from a ski. The Salomon 120 is a case in point. Great little SHORT SKI, but def not a skiboard. The Spruce 120 on the other hand has a totally different feel, very much a true skiboard.
I keep checking the web cams for snow, eternal optimist, thats me, sitting outside on my terrace with a Belgian beer and an Indian take-away longing for winter. How sad am I.........

[hyperguy]

who out there has custom skiboards? what do you think of them?

[wjeong]

who out there has custom skiboards? what do you think of them?

Hi Hyperguy,

You ski that carbon? I have a custom Lacroix. I ordered it super stiff, stiffer than the carbon. The edge hold is like a ski. It is great on hard pack, but beats the crap out of your legs in the icey chop. In deep powder, there is no flex to help you turn so you have to throw all your weight into the turn to force it to flex. This can be tiring in trees where you have no choice about turning or not. I did get what I ordered so I'm happy to try a board that was made by my spec. The Sherpa is a much more versitile board than my custom in my opinion. What little you give up in edge grip, you gain in a smoother ride and much easier turn initiation in the powder.

Wendell

[hyperguy]

Hi Hyperguy,

You ski that carbon? I have a custom Lacroix. I ordered it super stiff, stiffer than the carbon. The edge hold is like a ski. It is great on hard pack, but beats the crap out of your legs in the icey chop. In deep powder, there is no flex to help you turn so you have to throw all your weight into the turn to force it to flex. This can be tiring in trees where you have no choice about turning or not. I did get what I ordered so I'm happy to try a board that was made by my spec. The Sherpa is a much more versitile board than my custom in my opinion. What little you give up in edge grip, you gain in a smoother ride and much easier turn initiation in the powder.

Wendell

I got laid off. So i didnt get a chance to ski them yet. Which is y im so exited for the season too start.

[jjue]

Sorry for the jack guys but I feel that going past the sherpa in lenght just cuases problems with defining your sport,

/rant

I was trying to find out what about skiboard design made the boards FEEL like a skiboard and not a ski to me , nothing conceptual... just a personal thing , getting on a pair of planks .. and saying , oh yes, that 's a skiboard ... or oh no , that is a ski ... I was struggling .. really struggling , until Jeff Singer of Spruce made it all clear to me .. Thanks , Jeff!
To me this is the clearest statement that has ever been made as to what gives a skiboard it's particular feel ..

http://www.spruceski.com/tech.html

[DennisEvans]

Jack, don't get me wrong, it is the ride that truely defines a skiboard, but my issue is in the fact that most people, and I don't mean in our community, aren't really perceptive enough to tell the difference. For example, I was riding my summit nomad 99s and some guy rode up to me in a lift line and asked how I got ski bindings on my snowboards...it was a true facepalm moment and, I honestly believe that if we start changing the standards for length, then we are just getting closer and closer to the ignorance that is the rest of society. Before we know it we will be speaking before thinking and insulting people because of what they ride (or don't).

[jjue]

I actually agree with you Godofmedia., in many ways. .. For me , even if two planks can be made with a skiboard like turn radius in the over 130 range ... it will really start to beg the difference between skis and skiboards... the length is important in many ways , the shorter lengths even with the same surface area and the same turn radius , have a more inuitive easier turning feel , ... many folks in the past said 110 defines the limit ... for me ,personally , the Sherpa at 130 defines the limit ... I really don't see the point in going longer ... and I do understand your point of making the difference clearer for others... ..

I also agree with Valmorel that 130 is really about the practical limit for a skiboard from a design standpoint to still retain the skiboard feel .

[DennisEvans]

I agree with the sherpa being the limit, and I do plan on picking some up right after I grab some alps. Moving to Washington next summer so I am going to need something longer than 99 for the bc pow

[Manlenium]

May be rigging a custom this year methinks...:D

[SkaFreak]

I couldn't care less what the planks strapped to my feet are called as long as they are fun to ride. That being said, things may be 'a brewin...only time will tell....

[Manlenium]

True, but we all have a preference. I wish i picked up some lokens before they discontinued. I am liking stiff boards.:cool: