Soul Plates

[tommy]

This is for Bobson.

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hi guys

i finally got offf my ass and did a few designs bin talking to tommy over here which has helped and taken all the points on board from here

I started out with a design to fit to my phiokkas (below).

This means machining some holes in the base plate of the binding to allow for the dowels, and also to tap and thread a hole in the middle to allow you to take it on/off.

I liked this cos you are distributing the load caompletely, and you can take it off by one screw also can adjust the outrigger and ok for LH/RH use.

However it is resticted to the phiokkas and does require external machining

discussing this with tommy its seems better to offer a solution that could work with most bindings with minimal or no need for machining - ideally just bolt on!

so this changed to the other design. This uses a plate which is secured to the binding through the normal 4x4 mount. This rises to allow a plate to be mounted using 4x4 screw mounting at 90 degrees to the original (may not need 4 screws).

This would seem to work on a number of bindings as long as the area where the screws are is flat.

It will work LH/RH and with some modification you could easily adjust the amount theplate sticks out the side of the skiboard.

You could have a set of plates depending on the width of board/boot size.

There should be no extra stiffness to the board as the adaptor plate has bosses for the 4x4 mount points to raise the main area away to stop int placing more pressure on the ski.

As you see you could make the actual grind area as large as you want, and in differing forms, inserts for platics could also be incorporated.

im gonna make a prototype up for tommee to try out, as he is going away in a copla weeks.



I guess i need some feeback form all you guys

What do you want to be able to do with the plate?

How long/high do you think it should be?



Bobson

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http://www.skiboarders.co.uk/image1.jpg
http://www.skiboarders.co.uk/image2.jpg
http://www.skiboarders.co.uk/image3.jpg
http://www.skiboarders.co.uk/image4.jpg
http://www.skiboarders.co.uk/image5.jpg
http://www.skiboarders.co.uk/image6.jpg
http://www.skiboarders.co.uk/image7.jpg

[tommy]

hmm ok it came up with the links and not the pictures, well they're there if you want to look at them.

[Alex-TRS]

its quite funny how this plate is identical to the design I prototyped last season.... not that I want to whine or
anything but its my baby =)

anyways the design is perfect in my opinion and the only thing
that needs to be worked out is the metal used for the frame
and the plastic used for the inserts.

I will be receiving an aluminium prototype soon enough and I
will buy different plastics to test out in the field.

But the measurements for the design I made are pretty much
perfect if you ask me. It doesn't stop you from carving, its as
wide as Skate's soul plates and sits right on the side of the
boot. The feeling from grinding is very close from grinding on
skates except you have a stiff ski boot instead of a soft skate.

The only problem that kept my prototype from being manufactured (?) is that it doesn't slide right.... it locks on good
but the UHMW inserts are too fast and the metal I used
was too heavy and didnt slide much.

So testing aluminium 1/4 with diffrent inserts should help decide
what the final "product" would be like.

But in the end I strongly encourage everyone to make their
own prototypes....

if somehow this "project" can be brought to the skiboarding market via some company then I'd be glad to be a part of it.
but until the community can work out all the rough edges of
such a product then Its probably better off to keep this
thing as individual projects and then when we reach a concensus
of how it should be built we could make this into something
bigger for everyone to enjoy.

anyway I talk too much, lates

[bobson]

hi alex

thanks for the comments
dont wanna steal your baby - dont worry!
just wanted to get peoples opinions to get a good solution

not suprising that we came to the same conclusion in terms of mounting theres only a few ways to mount really!
like you say the best way to do it is to try them out for real
only then can you get proper feedback on how they work

as you found out, it would seem that plastic inserts are the way to go with skates but maybe just cause problems on skiboards

interesting that they dont get in the way when carving

just wanna help out as i am in r&d so its probably easier for me than most to get something knocked up

now if you could put some titanium inserts in the plate when you grind you'd get sparks

:eek:

[tommy]

alex i know you skate aswell, what do you think it would be like to ride skiboards in boots that come up as much as rollerblades? it would give you alot more freedom but i dont think it would support you enough. i just dont think its going to be possible to do true top souls and stuff in boots that stiff, you would have to get it very flat. oh yeh who has ever riden the line weapons? what are they like? i will be testing this grind plate in 2 weeks hope full get some shit down. got a few things i want to try. I will get some footage and post back to you on how it went.

T

[shantz24]

alex, you get my email?

[kirk]

i usually ride the weapons and I love them. They make grinds feel smooth like on skates. I wish they stil made them cause i think they kick ass.

[tommy]

kirk ive never actually seen the weapons like in detail or no anything about them, can you like explain them to me, like how there different?

[Greco]

this should help...1000 words :)

[tommy]

ahh cheers greco, its actually different to how i thought.... im going to try soul plates out but i think i will stick to skiboards in there natural state.

[Alex-TRS]

Tommy,
forget about doing True Top Souls on skiboards =)

I was doing makios, souls and truespin mizous (they were on the flat of the board and not the soul plate) last year
and I really doubt we could easily do topside grinds.

the problem is that most parks have square rails so bending onto a topside would be impossible in ski boots.

Altought on a round rail it would be possible (they did alleyoop fishbrains and kindgrinds in old school skiboarding videos....on small double rails).

but Makio, Soul, Mizou and their alley-oop, truespin, inspin,outpins,zerospin counterparts would be "easily" done with our soul plate.

I can't wait to see everyone progress this year with soul plates popping up everywhere....

Shantz24 should be shipping me his aluminium prototype friday or something and whenever my skiboarding season will begin, I will be testing!

and tommy, I really doubt we could get a lower boot working with skiboards..not enough support would be dangerous. I doubt that even snowboard boots would be flexible enough for us to do true top soyale =)

[tommy]

yeh thats what i thought haha, surely you might be able to top soul though, like on a round hand rail. mmmm 360 topsoul. i think you could do it if you left your boots undone, i will let you kinow in 3 weeks if you can. i do have screwed up ankles so i will try true top soul, it not going to hurt that much... touch wood.... im so hyped about using them, but i dont know how much im going to like them. just have to wait and see

[marcolo86]

Idea:

How about slightly curving downwards the part of the plate which will eventually be resting on the rail? In order to prevent the rider from slipping off easily. I'm pretty sure this would work on round rails, and also on squared ones if the plate is thick enough.

[Alex-TRS]

hahaha you gotta be kidding.... what's the use of curving the plate?

the plate is an "L" shape and the rail rests within the "L" shape's elbow.... if the top part is curved then it won't lock properly.

have you ever seen skates with curved soul plates? I think not....

I think that by slipping off you were refering to frontside (royale) or backslide (one foot) grinds and well on those types of grinds the soul plate shouldn't be touching the rail so there's no need to curve it or whatever to help balance.

didn'T want to sound harsh or anything...

if I misunderstoof the point you were trying to make, then please explain it further (drawings or whatever)

lates

[tommy]

mmm a backside plate on skiboards, hahaha you could do like full on royales. yeh you just bone over to lock on more. i cant stop posting because im so hyped about going, one might say im a"post whore"

[marcolo86]

Point number 1:

We're all here to share our knowledge/ideas in order for all of us to be better off, help other riders and contribute to the evolution and amelioration of our sport, so there's no need to laugh or be sarcastic if you think something is unsuitable. Let's try to maintain the harmony amongst all users without being disrespectful...

Point number 2: This is more or less what I meant.

http://www.skiboarders.co.uk/erw.bmp

[Kelli]

if your going to mock something learn to draw please. It was horrible art form.

[marcolo86]

Oh I'm truly sorry your royal majesty... I'll do my best next time... For the time being please forgive my ignorance regarding artwork...

[Greco]

damn, so harsh today. he wasn't "mocking" it, just trying to get a point across, and i understood completely. why try to make it look all pretty and stuff?!


Originally posted by Kelli
if your going to mock something learn to draw please. It was horrible art form.

[bobson]

yeh

it dont matter wether its a sketch on a fag packet
if you get an idea wherever get it down

if you curve the plate surely you are restricting yourself to a certain selection of rails

it would work great for showboating on one rail but the rest of the park i think not

would be good to have for video mind ;)

[Alex-TRS]

oh geez I knew my post would be bad....
wrote that at work and I wasn't feeling too good
at the time...

it got out way too harsh...I didn't mean it like that. sorry marcolo.
I realized it at the end of my post but decided to post anyway.

The drawing you did is exactly what I thought you meant.
and that wouldn't work well in the park....
it would be extremely hard to lock on sideways
----> like moving your skiboard towards the rail directly
instead of jumping and "falling" onto therail.

and It wouldn't help out much on "royale" grinds either...
since grinding on the edges of the skiboard already makes grinds miserable (getting stuck) I doubt a larger piece of metal would do
any good.

I did have ideas for "backslide" plates of sort but it didn't quite materialize yet.... if anyone has an idea, please share.

as marcolo said, that's what we're here for!

the biggest problem is definately grinding on the skiboard's edges...it destroys the boards and doesn't grind well.
thats why the weapons were awesome.

I gotta go now but we should figure out a way to make
"emulate" the weapons backslide area on the soul plate....
anyway sorry again people and let's get back on the right
track to friendliness =)

[Kelli]

hey marco i apologize for saying what i did. lets all hug and make up now

[marcolo86]

No need for any of you to apologize... just felt like it was necessary to remind that we're all united for a cause...

We're not many, and this is yet another reason for us to co-operate with one another if we want to keep the skiboarding microcosm alive and achieve something, which I truly believe we are doing already.

;)

[tommy]

the soul plate is done now, thanks bobson if anyone wants to have a look just tell me.

[Greco]

of course, everyone wants a look. post a pic. and get one to alex asap. :D

[Alex-TRS]

haha yeah let me see it... Shantz shipped me his aluminium proto yesterday. I will test it along with Bailey when he comes to ride with me from dec. 26th-30th.

[bailey]

oh my god its gonna be sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetttttt!!

[tommy]

http://www.skiboarders.co.uk/images/soul1.jpg
http://www.skiboarders.co.uk/images/soul2.jpg
http://www.skiboarders.co.uk/images/soul3.jpg
http://www.skiboarders.co.uk/images/soul4.jpg
http://www.skiboarders.co.uk/images/soul5.jpg
http://www.skiboarders.co.uk/images/soul6.jpg


(this is like the 5th try)
Sorry dont know how to post the actual image.....

and dont forget this is 1st attemps of making one, thanks danny bobson

[allz]

so its only on Phiokka ?? or for all bindings?

[tommy]

all bindings.. im putting them on canon td1 bindings...

[allz]

good, you have 3 days, and you will test them man ;) !!!!

hope get review soon :D from this prototype.

[Alex-TRS]

looking good mate!

is that made out of aluminium?

looks like mine only diff. material and why did you choose to do a 2 piece base-plate? its seems really well built and all (I don't have the tools to do that! haha) but what is its true purpose?

[tommy]

so you can take the soul plate off with out doing anything to the binding... just take that and the screws off and away you go again....

[kirk]

I just shat myslef when i saw that...

I tried to make one last year, but forgot to consider the width of the boot so it didn't fit...

That one looks great tho, huge like ones on rollerblades!

[shantz24]

looks really good. im personally not feelin the two piece setup but it looks great. when you goin to get to ride it? im hopin for snow soon so i can ride mine even its on the streets.

[tommy]

the two piece setup makes so much sense though, it would be stupid not to have it in a way...

[bobson]

yeh its useful to have the two peice

i started off with a one peice but it kinda makes it difficult to make it work for different bindings.
By using the plate you can use it on all/most bindings using teh 4x4 mount.
And shouldnt have to make any modification to the actual binding.
The original one i designed to fit phiokkas, but talking to tommy who uses TD-1's it didnt take to much to adapt.

Seeing as you dont need to make any modifications it could be an 'off the shelf' item.....

You could also have different soulplates or other plates to do stuff and be able to swap them easily on the mountain.
Seeing as it would be pretty stable you could get a camera mounted, efectively a ski view of the slope.

just some thoughts, all comments/ideas are good!

:)

[Greco]

wow. you're good. being able to use it on all 4x4 bindings without modifications is BIG!

a camera mounted on the plate? that's crazy, i would love to try that.

keep up the good work and if you need someone to mass produce this bad boy i'm sure Spruce would be interested in it. Jeff Singer has got ton's of mfg'ing experience and contacts.

G

[tommy]

yes i agree with greco jeff is a legend! is one of the nicest guys ive talked to, his so helpful aswell. Im the first one to test the plate out :D :D

[Alex-TRS]

awesome thats what I wanted to hear! hehe
the 2 piece is indeed pretty swell.

having different bottom pieces to suit different bindings,widths,etc and having the same soul plate
is great!

I knew I should've made friends with people who can
work metal and such =) hehe

the camera mount idea is pretty neat (for an upcoming flick
anyone?) only It would have to be a pretty "cheap" camera
since it could easily be destroyed =)

I just thought of it and I never posted pics of my protoype from last year...with the UHMW inserts and all. I'll take some tonite
and post em.

peace

[tommy]

check back here in 1 1/2 weeks for the "soul plate edit"

[shantz24]

the one piece would work for most people tho. the only thing i can see not making any setup universal is boot size. this is the problem i had using alex's design. i had to make the bottom piece over an inch longer so it would extend beyond my boots, they are size 14.5, a little bigger than most peoples. does yours extend out far enough that anyone could use it? or does it fit snug against your boot? the easiest way i could think of to make it universal for boot size would be to use slotted holes to slide the plate. but then you run the risk of it moving and if it became loose that would just be bad. im just lookin out for us big feeted people, dont forget about us hahaha.

but wow, i still cant believe how many people have taken to the idea of a soul plate. this is great! shouldnt be too long before there is a perfected version.

tommy, have you considered trying some kind of plastic insert? or are you just going for the metal for now? also, was that milled from a piece of aluminum block or was it a plate and bent?

[tommy]

i dont know, im not the one who made it, bobson is, im just the tester........

[bobson]

hi guys

thanks for the comments
yeh the plate i have done for tommy isnt that adjutsable
but by elongating the slots on the sould plate it could be moved in or out depending on the skiboard width/boot size

the plate is aluminium then formed into shape
this prototype was formed using err um large hammer and a vice and a form plate, not nice but good for a prototype to see if it will work

ideally i'd wanna use a metal or titanium plate formed using a press, which isnt difficult just wanted to get something out quick for tommy to try

a metal alloy plate would be aq lot stronger and the thickness used could be thinner so weight shouldnt be too much of an issue

if all goes well then ill develop it further, jeff sounds a good call

i pretty happy to help out with the cause for skiboarding and its future, who knows where it could end up....

because skiboarding has a future...

:D

[Alex-TRS]

Here are some quick snaps from last year's prototype....
I also took one with the grind inserts (not bolted on)

[Alex-TRS]

2:

[Alex-TRS]

3:

[Alex-TRS]

4:

[bobson]

Hi alex

sorry its taken a while tp post, i been well busy
that looks great

is that metal or ally plate?
it would be much better to use metal

cos i wanted to finish the plate for tommy in time for his trip i used aluminium, but really would wanna use metal

hopefully should be ok for him

should know soon enough, think hes back sunday

looks like im gonna make italy
:D
f**k work....

[Alex-TRS]

these are made out of steel and they suck balls.....
they are heavy as ****,ugly and not cut right.

the new aluminium ones Shantz sent me look marvelous.
I will have them drilled over the weekend and should
test test on the streets soon enough! and hopefully
in a park soon.

[tommy]

hey everyone,

I managed to use to soul plates on the first day i arrived but not after that as i fell ill i couldnt move. They worked really well and managed to get some good stuff down even though it felt really weird, it was a perfect size but i would want plastic grind inserts to make it slide smoother and i did give it a few dents.

(and im still ill) (and dont go to les deux alpes it kinda sucks)

[Alex-TRS]

I also tested the new aluminium prototype yesterday (before I broke my skiboard!!!!) and it did really well.

I find that Aluminium slides just right for now. UHMW is really too much. I might try with nylon inserts or something.

I did makios on a 10 foot flat rail with ease. But as tommy said it feels a bit weird at first...most rails in snow parks are quite low and you need to drop onto them instead of jumping on them so the plate is stressed alot and when you lock on it feels as though the plate is flexing alot..... but not that bad.

I will try to find a way to make the plate stiffer. that would make it more enjoyable. But sizing and material is perfect!

[matthew]

im geting some made this weekend and start working on inserts and a light weaght but strong frame im going to work on cuting out some of the slideing surfice that isent needed to make it lighter but still slide good so anyone have some input on inserts?

[PureVenom]

Cant you use like titanium or thick aluminum or something? That stuff is very strong. Then you can cut out some of the material in spots to make it light. Then maybe use a kevlar/plastic to slide on. (mounted by 2 screws as in the drawing sorry it's so crude but I only have paintbrush) Look at the bomber bindings and see the cutouts. I think you can get away with removing some material without losing rigidity.

Just a thought...it would be so fast and you could replace the plastic as they wear out.

[PureVenom]

The actual plate up top doesnt have to be that long either. It just needs to be wider to lock on to the rail better.

[Alex-TRS]

it still needs a good length for it to be stable....
on skates you grind on skate's length and with skiboards you have to balance much longer than your skiboot. so if its not long enought its pretty hard to keep grinds stable.

[PureVenom]

Well....if you have to keep them a bit longer than maybe titanium with some material removed would be you solution to strength and weight. The kevlar injected plasic on the bottom side is not a bad idea either. It's super strong ,light and will slide like a mutha!

[matthew]

ya i was planing on cuting some of the fraim out to if theres still a trip being planed for this summer sometime i want to get a bunch made up with different inserts so i cant get everyone to do some testing

[PureVenom]

Yeah that would be a cool deal. Testing is the only way to see what truly works the best. You know for the amount of titanium it would take to make those. It's not very expensive. Or even high grade aluminum.