Skier vs Skiboarder on the Sherpa 130

[jjue]

Our longboard skiboards can be ridden center mount either like a skier with poles or like a skiboarder without . It is fascinating to me that if I go without poles .. .I immediately drop lower into a lower balanced wider skiboarder stance and ride the boards more smoothly using the side cut of the board and rolling from edge to edge .. If I put poles in my hand , I immediately stand taller and put my skiboards closer together and use more unweighting motions to get the skiboards around . Either way works well , , but my bum knee much prefers the skiboard style that puts much less strain on it and just seems a smoother way of turning . Here is a very interesting head to head vid comparison on the Sherpa . Same center mount Skiboard. Two great riders . One riding the Sherpa like a skier , the other riding the same board like a skiboarder. If you watch Ian carefully in pow , he tends to be weighting back on his skiboards more and unweighting more to turn , while Skafreak seems in a more balanced position and uses less unweighting . I have always skiied pow like Ian does with poles and unweighting alot .. but this last weekend I started to realize that I don't need to do that . I can ride deep , heavy pow more like Skafreak rides it which is very cool and a nice and different feeling . And I DON'T need to worry so much about the tips diving with the Sherpa.
ps. If you turn both of these you tube vids on at the same time
and have a big enough computer screen , it is a cool effect and you can see Ian and Skafreak riding the Sherpa at the same time and compare styles really nicely . !! Give the first vid a head start as it is longer , and the really cool part is to compare the pow riding in the middle and end of the first clip with the pow riding in the 2nd clip ....

First Ian Skiinlan riding the 130 Sherpa with poles like a skier on groomers and then broken pow

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Next Skafreak going through similar broken pow Skiboard style

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[CAN]

That was a cool comparison. In my case, I think I evolved over time. I started on skis, then got some Solomon snowblades and then Head 94's. I used both of those with poles. I found this site and simultaneously ditched the poles. I feel so much more in tune with the ride without poles as I now use the boards to turn not my old "ski form" with the poles. I like the sound of the KTP's carving down the hill. Also it is one less thing to carry along across the parking lot. I bought some collapsable poles but ,have never used them, and now probably never will. It also seems cooler to have a different way to get down the hill as I don't look like a skier on short skis but a skiboarder.

Chad

[Manlenium]

Great comparison video. Like others my style evolved from ski to skiboard. Like the music choice for those vids too....Yeah baby.:p

[jjue]

Here is another comparison of ski vs skiboard style , this time on the Spruce 120 , same board , same red jacket :)!

First Ian's wife , Di , on the 120 first carving on firm snow and then riding powder with nice ski style with poles

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Here is Valmorel on the 120 in the first clip carving firm snow and then riding pow , skiboard style . in the second clip. .

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[jjue]

Today in soft slushy snow , I was experimenting with stance ...and with what poles do to stance ... I was looking very carefully at the vids of Skafreak and Valmorel's position in soft broken pow ... My usual way to ride this stuff is with poles and standing tall like a skier and unweighting my skiboards. today . I did ride with poles but deliberately shortened them way down .. actually I leaned forward in the stance Valmorel and Skafreak have and shortened my poles so that they would only touch the snow if I crouched in that position and would be waving in the air if I stood taller ...
By getting into the lower crouched skiboard type stance in difficult snow and concentrating on just rolling edge to edge rather than unweighting and planting poles I really could feel the Sherpa take off , and feel both edges in soft snow almost carving the slush. it was very cool carving down steep soft snow this way and not unweighting alot ... basically you use the very same techniques you use on groomers to ride in pow and spring unconsolidated slush ... very nice .

In difficult unconsolidated snow , I feel more powerful and can plough the board at speed through the stuff , using the very tight turn radius of skiboards to help me turn rather than relying on poling and unweighting like I do on long skis ...

This season one of the biggest things that helped my skiboard technique was riding the KTP 101 in a variety of snow conditions without poles ... the shorter wide board was a great teacher on how to really ride the longboards like skiboards rather than like skis ..

[DennisEvans]

Originally posted by Manlenium
Great comparison video. Like others my style evolved from ski to skiboard. Like the music choice for those vids too....Yeah baby.:p

My style evolved from snowboard to skiboard talk about transition.

[mahatma]

jjue,

I dig your search so much. I mean it's clear that the terrain itself is not your obstacle. It's the relationship. So, only you will know when it's right. Keep it about you and your friend and it will happen. Absolute contentment - a state where the challenge is replaced by freedom. Then I think the awareness that the only way to freedom is through the respect and appreciation of your friend. Nothing holding you back. No baggage. Nothing to prove and nothing to be. Friends. Freedom. I hope to meet you one day on that road. It will be a good day.

[jjue]

Mahatma , I probably will never end the search , there is just so much to learn, bummer guess I wlll never really be content ,then :)!

In any event here are some other thoughts for what its worth .. Ever wonder why most skiboarders , especially skiboarders riding off the groomers in variable terrain , naturally assume a more crouched position compared to skiers ?? I think it has to do with the short nature of our boards leading to less fore and aft stability then long skis , but what we lose in the fore and aft stability we more than make up for in spades by the ease of turning of our boards . By dropping down into a lower balanced stance we are able to balance well especially with our fat modern skiboards even without poles and can quickly and easily shift our weight fore and aft depending on terrain variations and differences in consistency of snow . The interesting thing about longboards is that they are long enough to have more of the stability of long skis fore and aft and feel more like skis to skiers, are able to be steered and ridden successfully from a high skier stance with poles . What I have found , however , is that you lose some of the performance inherent in the longboards in difficult variable snow in this position . By riding them like shorter regular skiboards , in a lower balanced skiboard stance , they become very powerful in plowing through the variable terrain and the performance really takes off .

It is interesting that some of the way re naturally ride skiboards is filtering down into the long ski forums as skiers are riding fatter , shorter skis through difficult snow ... In this long ski thread there are some nice hints for riding crud that can well be applied to riding skiboards in difficult off piste soft snow and crud

http://www.dcski.com/ubbthreads33/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=31933&fpart=1

From that thread , these tips are especially useful , I think and applicable to skiboarding off piste



Crud must also be skied more "two footed." This means keeping fairly equal pressure on both skis a lot of the time. Again, we are "tipping" more than steering here. Tipping both skis lets them engage the crud and, consequently, steer themselves.

Fore and Aft balance is a challenge in crud because it often has wildly varying consistency. You may feel tempted to lean back to avoid being pitched forward. Try not to do this. Its better to try to stay over your skis and just power through the heavy stuff. While its also easier said than done, a little speed is your friend in crud and not your enemy. A little velocity helps you blow through it rather than being timid and having it control you.
_________________________

Yeah you get a wide ski that is quiet and damp.. a big stable platform. You try to stay compact so when the snow density changes come you won't do an endo and use your stomach muscles/core to keep you balanced. You get thrown on your tips and tails all the time so you gotta pull your feet back under you or shove-em forward and ride your tails (hee hee I love Bushwacker comment when we skied together .. "gee that PSIA stuff sure doen't work for real!") stay loose like you are drunk (my old reace coach's advice) so you can absorb all the crap you have to ski over. I am a "hands-man" so I try to hold my poles as loose as I can (like almost dropping them... it works for ice too. Don't over-angulate the chop will just high-side you, bbut try to carve it if you can .. a carving ski will always do better as it tracks true unlike a skid and will give you stability to balance agains ... think about the difference between running in a mud field with sneakers vs. cleats ... like ski a flat ski like you are bump skiing. Don't look in front of your ski tips but look way down about 30 - 50 yards ahead.. your body will deal with the terrain. Go really fast , like fast as you can handle (remember when we powder skied and you went supersonic? Like that) i.e. maintain a lot of kinetic energy. Use and air-time you get off of ruts to make the next turn. Try to feel like you are light on your skis. Don't let your hands drop ... keep 'em in fornt of you, arms almost straight, chest level, no pole plants, and wide like you feel like a bird. Keep your back slightly curved but don't bend at the waist (onlikc when you carve). And *relax* ...... but with strength.


see, isn't that easy?!??!?! "

[mahatma]

jjue,

I doubt any of us will ever get there. It’s our nature to be discontented.

We come from such different places – skier versus snowboarder. My transition had to be complete. No choice. You on the other hand bring a whole raft of partially to completely transferable skills. I’m sure that sometimes works against you. I for example find myself guiding/steering with my hands. I crouch down; put my hands out in front of me sort of like Frankenstein and run the whole show that way. When I want to turn I just move a hand over to where I want to go, actively look at my hand and the skiboards react under me. When I look at the terrain I slow down and become fixated. I always look 20-30 feet ahead. When carving, it’s all about the trust for me. I have to totally commit. It’s an amazing feeling. I talk to my boards constantly when carving. Especially on steep, icy, long runs when I’m doing my version of space shuttle re-entry speeds. This is where I want the Lacroix’s to come in. I want to think I’m ready to really lay it down. Crud at speed is the most tiring for me. The need to try and remain fluid mixed with the need to catch traction when and where I can creates one huffing and puffing old man. It’s fantastic. On a snowboard crud is totally different. Especially on my board that smoothes out any crud that hasn’t taken on mogul like proportions. Going from groom to powder is a transition for me. I always feel out of place for awhile. I transition well if the pow is just over my boots or less but when things start reaching above my ankles then all the rules change for me. I have to react differently and that takes a few minutes. Moguls are something I’m working on - especially the steep, icy stuff. You know the type – 32+ degrees and not an inch of level ground. Just trenches and bumps. I have trouble keeping my speed under control which causes me to lose balance. I’m just rambling but I find nothing ugly at all in what I guess is a typical “gorilla stance”. It’s beautiful. It places us in a position to follow, adapt and enjoy the terrain. This stands in opposition to overcoming the terrain. I think that really sums it up. Non-skiboarders look at us and say “What the hell kind of stance is that?” because we are going with the flow. We are not trying to overcome anything – we are trying to grow the relationship. The mountain has presented itself and should be appreciated for all that it is. The mountain should not be taken advantage of or treated disrespectfully. This is where things go wrong. Well, that is where things went wrong for me. The idea that a certain mountain is somehow lacking or that I am somehow lacking for a mountain is ridiculous. This past season I went to resorts that were so small they only had 3 lifts and 6 or 7 runs. The pre-skiboarding me would have been bored in an hour, placing myself above the mountain and ridiculing my friend as less. However, as a skiboarder I get to feel it all. The nuances are very real to me skiboarding and I am a better friend. On the other side of the terrain coin, when the terrain breaks the magic 40 degree mark giving that sheer cliff appearance I feel much more comfortable asking “How can I enjoy this part of our relationship?”. That is opposed to “How do I get down this?” It’s the same terrain. The difference is the outlook. Skiboarding is about outlook. Skills matter and need to be developed. This is a given. But, the deeper questions are in the “why’s”. The “why’s” define us. Skiboarding has redefined my “why’s”.