More Sherpa talk

[mahatma]

I was at Akakura today with the Sherpa's. I rate Akakura a strong intermediate resort. Everything is long and steep although most runs not killer steep. They have 2 runs that are totally untouched and today the chopped up pow was shin to knee deep on occasion and super fluffy. The longest of the 2 unmolested runs drops down in 2 sections with the second half being work your butt off steep. Everyone finds themselves pulling over at some point and just gasping for air for a full minute because of how hard the chop is working you. My first time down the run I had a unique experience. I was trying to be relatively in the back seat and letting my legs work like pistons while I kept my shoulders pointed down and swished back and forth from the hips in a unweight and turn fashion. Well, my animal got away from me. I hit a deep section that caused the Sherpa's to nose dive causing them to send me over the handlebars as they acted like weird stilts. But, I was a bit off center so think of it like a sideways windmill. My downhill board uncoupled causing me to do a from the apex faceplant into a big old pillow of pow. It was hilarious as was proven by the cutie on a snowboard laughing at me as I dug out. I raised my arms creating a defeated looking "O" letting her know I was OK. I laughed with her and she just said "you're looking good" making us both laugh harder. She wasn't budging until I got going again as she was enjoying the rest time and there I was left thinking "this is all I need right now, pressure to perform". I made it the rest of the way down trying my best to behave like it was nothing.

I enjoyed the Sherpa's today very much. I do not do well on them if I begin to study what is immediately in front of me. It seems to make me lean forward creating an unstable feel especially at speed. I seem to drive them much better if I concentrate solely on what I want to do next which mean keeping my head up and looking well down slope allowing the boards to handle whatever is between me and my goal. They really seem to enjoy being driven in that fashion. Now, I can't say that without adding what is becoming Mahatma mantra - power from the heels.

I also took part of the morning to do what jjue seems to preach so often - the soft edge. I did 3 runs from the top of the resort soft edging. Just staying in the middle of the slope, swiveling back and forth at the hip raking off speed with each quick change. Sometimes I had to skid to a stop as things got fast and I wanted to dive into a carve to compensate. I think it was Slow who said jjue must have legs of steel. I agree. Scooting around like that takes a lot of energy and my thighs really started paying the price about half way through the 2nd run. By the end of the 3rd I decided I had paid the required homage to the great jjue and got my carve on. It is a good skillset and I did get better with each run. But, it's not a passive way to skiboard.

A good day on good terrain.

[jjue]

Great post , Mahatma , and brings up some important points concerning the Sherpa and actually smaller skiboards as well . Also points to some of the differences between rear set skiboards and center mount skiboards.

In center mount less floaty skiboards , the default position is to be back right on your heels with your weight way back . If you are not doing this all the time , you will face plant for sure from the center mount position . The rear position helps to keep the tips up and the tails down in deep pow and increases lift and float. The heavier you are and the less floaty the board the more you need to have your weight back . Setting your binding back really helps maintainig this position .

Constantly putting your weight back to the heels and way back to the tails of your board is a tiring way to ride deep pow or variable soft snow .

The major advance in deep pow riding for skiboards over the last few seasons is the development of boards that now have the float to let you ride easier from a center mount position without putting your weight so severely to the tails in deep pow . How much float you need depends on your weight .

The cool thing about the Sherpa is that it now allows big guys like us to ride deep pow on a skiboard from a center mount position without burning out our thighs trying to constantly keep our weight back .

The problem is that from the center mount position you need to be more careful of getting your balance just right . On skiboards with rear set bindings , where you are always standing on the tails , you are in a safe position and will essentially never go over the handlebars. This is an easy and comfortable way to ride skiboards, and I rode them like that for two seasons . The problem is that you are not using the potential of the skiboards to their full effect that way . Once you get a floaty enough board like the Sherpa and ride center the full speed of the board becomes available to you if you ride centered. But here is the rub , you do need to spend some time on the board in variable conditions to dial in your balance just right and feel how to change the balance on the fly .

Sometimes the balance is dead center , sometimes toward the nose of the board and sometimes back to the heels . The choppier and more variable the conditions , the more adjustments you need to make . As you are flying along these are subtle adjustments to get the board flying at the fastest , best angle depending on the snow conditions. This is not something that comes immediately , unless you are a gifted athelete like Skafreak with great intuitive balance skills but rather , something that takes time on the board in various soft snow conditions to get right on a particular board. Each board is different and how you get that balance dialed in is a bit different on the Sherpa vs the Spruce 120 vs the ALP or KTP . It is best , I have found , to choose one board as your favorite for powder, broken pow and off piste type conditions and ride that all the time to get your balance dialed just right . The huge advantage of the Sherpa compared to other skiboards is the tremendous stability front and back because of its length and side to side because of its width in choppy variable snow and crust . The reward of taking the time to get your balance dialed in , is that in conditions , that you describe , riding the Sherpa becomes just as easy for me as riding groomers or consistent light pow . The adjustment of my body weight becomes intuitive , while I am , as Skafreak says, paying attention to my center, I am not working hard. I am mostly centered and not weight back on the tails all the time or way forward all the time. The tool drops away and you suddenly forget about the skiboard and just concentrate on the terrain in front of you , as it goes speeding by . You are no longer skiboarding but just flying through snow like a bird , natural like, the skiboard becomes likes the wings of a bird, just an extension of your body, Most , most COOL !! .. :)!

[mahatma]

jjue,

Thanks for that insight. You actually sort of nailed me. When I flipped over fronts of the Sherpa's I had actually just initiated a turn with weight forward. My speed was at a point of discomfort so as opposed to swooshing I dropped down into more of a gorilla stance, pointed with my hand and given the pitch was in a sort of high side stance wanting to force the carve to get rid of speed. That's exactly when I dug in. Right as both boards were point down the fall line looking to get into the turn with me favoring the downhill board.

[jjue]

jjue,

Thanks for that insight. You actually sort of nailed me. When I flipped over fronts of the Sherpa's I had actually just initiated a turn with weight forward. My speed was at a point of discomfort so as opposed to swooshing I dropped down into more of a gorilla stance, pointed with my hand and given the pitch was in a sort of high side stance wanting to force the carve to get rid of speed. That's exactly when I dug in. Right as both boards were point down the fall line looking to get into the turn with me favoring the downhill board.

Mahatma, another very good point you have brought up , is the question of power and speed. With less floaty skiboards , the skiboards sink into pow and are naturally slowed down , there is less speed and less need to kill speed. When I used to ride my Canon M7 99cm skiboard down a steep pow slope , it was a simple matter of just pointing the thing straight down the fall line and rocking all my weight back to the heels , the skiboard just dropped nice and controlled like with each turn , slowly straight down the slope like you are on an elevator . Never too fast and never need to kill speed. The Sherpa changes all that . All of a sudden you will most certainly have too much speed at times in deep pow and in variable pow which is a very new thing for skiboarders. There is no natural breaking effect like the smaller , less floaty skiboards. Technique has to be better to control that speed and power . If the technique is not right on and you screw up .. because you are going faster . the falls can be rather spectacular :)!

[jjue]

Another good point you bring up is the need to steer skiboards from a equally weighted two footed stance in variable snow and deep pow or crust . This is different than on firm and icy snow or groomers were weight can be more on one skiboard at at a time . Weighting one skiboard way more than the other is death in difficult variable terrain because it causes one skiboard to go one way and the other somewhere else . Killing speed in chop is much more about driving the skiboards as if they were one board and turning the skiboards with equally edge angles , weight more equal on both boards. and make your two skiboards more like one Snowboard, turning your skiboards like you would a snowboard and bleeding off speed as you carve out the turn .

One of the most amazing thing about a big floaty skiboard like the Sherpa is how much easier this is compared to the long narrow 195cm skis I used to ride in the same stuff . Even though I would concentrate on trying to keep a two footed balanced stance ,invariably one ski would want to dive or go somewhere else with a mind of its own and skiing this stuff was so , much , more difficult . Now riding choppy variable snow is so much easier .

[mahatma]

jjue,

Oh, I absolutely agree. However, there are times that is much easier said than done. Nonetheless, a solid reminder from a respected source. What do you suggest when ones ego is bruised more than ones body? Ha ha.

[t21]

same here,although i do not have a sherpa yet,my issue is the same when it comes to controlling my board especially on moguls or deep powder. in moguls for instance,jjue you showed me a video on how to approach the moguls,but when i tried it i tend to go across the slope, i think paralell is the right word:confused: and i totally loose the straight line effect or what you call it(sorry i forgot). now this really worries me especially i would like to explore the double blacks but i do not think with my approach on moguls on black runs i'm gonna eat it hard on DB:eek: on deep pow, my 120 does sink and manuevering it is a little more work and i do bite it once a while especially when its steeper than i anticipated and when i start to gain speed while leaning back. i can steer with no problems with other terrains except for those two. going back on moguls, i also tend to smack my boards together when i initiate a turn which causes me to almost loose control and end up traversing across the moguls until i can turn again, i even manage to step on my boards and loose it when i turn. it seems like i have an issue on how to swing my board using my heel to steer it,i'm not even sure if that is the right way of initiating a turn, help please..

[jjue]

T21 , here are some more vids and pointers , watch these things over and over again

ok first moguls , take a look at Ska freak on the sherpa negogiating moguls , watch how his upper body is quiet and mostly aiming down the hill , watch how his lower body turns under neath his upper body , going side ways to the hill to kill speed before it turns across the slope to the other side , look how he turns on the top of the moguls and slides down.. sometimes he will traverse across a series of moguls and then regain the rhythym down slope , look how calmly he negogiates things .. I am not nearly as good as he is , but this is the kind of skiboard technique in moguls that we should all be trying to get at ..
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Next lets look at pow .. again look at Skafreak on the Sherpa going through glades , again upper body calm heading down the mountain , body centered , skiboards maybe shoulder width apart and carving through the pow , nice and smooth with some speed... speed does help ..
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Here is another way to do pow with Leptisuisse on the 110 , skiboards are closer together ,weight is a little more to the back of the board , upper body quiet pointed down slope , a little bouncy turn off the tail from side to side ...

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ok here is Valmorel in choppy snow on a 110
again watch quite upper body , feet shoulder apart ,carving ,
valmorel does a little hop or unweight to get around sometimes in pretty tough terrain

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key is just practice , but these vids should help

[SkaFreak]

I wish I had some video from my riding today...with how I ride these days I look back at the one in the glades and just think about how terrible it looks compared to where my glade riding is now. I also keep learning more about speed and the limitations it brings. Straightlining a 45 degree slope for more than 5 or 10 feet still is a bit sketcy for me....although it was still really fun. I hold more speed through moguls these days too. Makes it feel smoother

[valmorel]

Also, take a look at the Leptisuisse video, and watch how he is using his arms/hands. Almost like carrying invisible ski poles and using them to help initiate turns.

[sempai]

I don't know how you guys put so much thought into how you are riding when you are riding. I admire it. I'm too busy concentrating on not busting my butt. :)

[eyesokman]

I don't know how you guys put so much thought into how you are riding when you are riding. I admire it. I'm too busy concentrating on not busting my butt. :)
LOL........... I dont think we do Sempai. All the analysis comes from watching ourselves on vid afterwards.

[mahatma]

Actually, my biggest issue on the steeps is keeping myself pointed down slope. That's pow, chop and groom. On groom the bail out is easy - drop into a carve. Less filling, tastes great. But in chop that's not an option. I start barreling across the slope and turn into an out of control accident waiting to happen. In pow, when I can't hang tough anymore I blow it by weighting the downhill leg too much in an attempt to create leverage and control speed but what happens in reality is it causes me to lose control because my uphill board immediately begins to drag. The core issue is controlling speed while keeping my shoulder pointed down the fall line. I can do this on moderate to what I'll call semi-advanced terrain. But, let things get truly steep - the exact point where the cats who are actually good shine - and I flounder. I'm all of a sudden like it's my first day. Then my confidence flies out the window and I truly turn into fish flopping around on snow. I need to break through. I need something that spurs that next growth spurt. I need a hug.

[mahatma]

OK, I watched the videos and the message for me is loud and clear - get lighter and more flexible. I'll be at Shiga for 3 day (Sat-Mon). Now, I have a mission - loosen up, pop it around and shake my booty. Maybe I'm getting a little rigid. Maybe I'm getting a little too low always preparing for war. Back it off a notch. Build finesse. Be the board. Hmm, I need waxing.

[t21]

thanks jjue, i am more similar to Valmorel style of riding when it comes to that kind of terrain,except sometimes i would cross the back of my boards. i would like to be able to emulate skafreaks smoothness. as i watch his vids,i also notice that he also seems to go across a little farther on his turns.meaning like he would go to the next turn further down and then continues to do short turns like a snake going down a hill:D. that is where i have the problem, the snake style of going thru moguls. the skiers makes it so easy,i guess having to pole plant help. but i won't use my poles for that, i just have to learn without it:) i might have to vid my self just to see what the hell i'm doing wrong:D well thanks again and i hope all of us with this issue will solve this and go on to more advance terrain. hugs to you mahatma:D i wish i could go back to japan and skiboard there, i was once stationed there in Yokosuka naval station back in 89-94 :(

[jjue]

Today was the best backcountry day of the season , cold snow storm , cold smoke on a steep treed slope . I am having to unlearn some of the habits I have developed on smaller skiboards . Where I am always putting my weight back on the smaller boards , if I do this on a steep very fast pow slope , the sherpa just scoots away from me and all of a sudden the sherpa is going down the slope and I feel like it will leave me behind !!! I need to get in a good skiboarders stance with my shin right up against the tounge of my boot , this is weird because i keep thinking I will go over the handlebars but never do ,, this way I can rein in the power of the sherpa in steep light pow , if necessary I can put just a little bit of pressure to the tails but while leaning forward shins against the tounge of my boots and lifting my toes a bit ,

I made one run with poles and then just held the reduced poles in one hand ... weird , I have used poles on skis all my life, but riding my center mount sherpa with poles just screws up my technique , I can get down the pow slope but it just doesn't feel smooth and seemless , more like I am fighting the board and not letting it do its thing . with poles in hand a skier like me tends to want to overpower the board , unweight and throw the board around , where all that is needed is to ride the thing ...Without poles , everything goes smoother , my body position is right , i seem to make the necessary adjustments in weight distribution easier and more fluidly , this is really strange to me

[lumberduvey]

All that good snow and terrain out there.... Argh. Reminds me why I want to get the heck out of the midwest, esp now with my sherpa's....

Does anyone have video of the Condor's in powder?

[jjue]

A couple of more comments on riding pow with the Sherpa .
I am used to riding center mount skiboards all the time thinking about getting my weight back to the tails all the time . With the Sherpa this is unnecessary , in fact at times I actually had to rock forward toward my toes in steep and deep very fast pow slopes to deliberately dive my tips just a tad to kill speed , on my shorter skiboards this would be death and I would certainly go over the handlebars , it is quite bizarre to me that the Sherpa does not to this but smoothly just decelerates a bit and then lets me just rock a bit back to bring the tips back up again . I think Ska freak mentioned the same thing when he talked about deliberately dropping his tips in deep snow and expecting to cartwheel forward but just feeling his board sink lower and lower and then dropping just a bit of weight to the tails and have the weird elevator effect of the tip of the Sherpa rising smoothly up in the snow ...

[mahatma]

jjue,

Thank you for that timely post. I'm going to Kagura Wednesday and Kagura is pow. I'm still deciding if I'm going on the quick, 2 hour, back country run. Getting lazy in my old age. I'll keep that tip in mind and give it a try.

[nate]

A couple of more comments on riding pow with the Sherpa .
I am used to riding center mount skiboards all the time thinking about getting my weight back to the tails all the time . With the Sherpa this is unnecessary , in fact at times I actually had to rock forward toward my toes in steep and deep very fast pow slopes to deliberately dive my tips just a tad to kill speed , on my shorter skiboards this would be death and I would certainly go over the handlebars , it is quite bizarre to me that the Sherpa does not to this but smoothly just decelerates a bit and then lets me just rock a bit back to bring the tips back up again . I think Ska freak mentioned the same thing when he talked about deliberately dropping his tips in deep snow and expecting to cartwheel forward but just feeling his board sink lower and lower and then dropping just a bit of weight to the tails and have the weird elevator effect of the tip of the Sherpa rising smoothly up in the snow ...
That's seems beyond comprehension to me, with my experiences on my revolts.
The sherpas must indeed be quite impressive

[jjue]

That's seems beyond comprehension to me, with my experiences on my revolts.
The sherpas must indeed be quite impressive


It actually can be quite creepy .. here is what Skafreak said a while back in a different thread :

"The analogy of the wing is a very good way of explaining it. In fact it kinda reminds me of one of the creepiest feelings that I have ever had on skiboards. First day out on my Sherpa's I was in Wolf Creek, Colorado right after a storm had dumped 5 feet of snow over about 2 days, and a couple more a few days before. It was bad enough that two snowboarders went missing and still have not been found. Anyways, I was cruising along on a green that was entirely ungroomed because there was too much powder to get the groomers up it. While cruising along on about 5 feet of untracked snow on a green, I decided to experiment a bit and leaned forward. My tips started dropping and I figured a faceplant was inevitable. The snow was light enough, that instead my boards just were cutting down through the powder. I got up to just above my knees and realized that I should probably pull up before I found the bottom and ate it into deep snow. I leaned back, and just like a wing, the boards pulled back up to the surface. "