why don't they?

[Jonny W]

why don't they try something different with skiboard manufacturing, it seems to me that cap construction on skiboards for more aggressive riders isn't working to well. every trip we go on i see someones boards delamed on the tip or tale, or right under the binding as every pair of skiboards i ever have owned has done. I know I do alot of rails and i should expect that sort of thing, but now how often do you see high end snowboards and twin tip skis made with cap construction? never. The line weopons we're a great concept, i would like to see someone build off of that.
anyone else have any ideas, cause its starting to get lame

[tommy]

I want a new weapon concept board to come out to, its about time, and everyone seems to love it.

[PureVenom]

Well....the weapon is still cap construction. I think it is just the nature of the beast so to speak. Not ALL boards delam. I have never had a problem with any of my 3 pairs of boards and they are all cap construction. By the way....the weapon idea is coming back as we speak....shhhhhhh. Soon.....very soon . :D

[kirk]

My weapons arent cap construction, they have flat sidewalls like a lot of new snowboards have, not too sure what its called. They dont have any delam problems or anything, and they ride great.

I definately think that some boards should be like that, cause the weapons are so smooth on the rails its unbelieveable. Its hard to catch an edge if i try.

Also, the inserts on the weapons are long pieces of steel that run along the length of the board, through the plate and the ends. I dont know if that is what makes them so strong, but I've really beat on them and they haven't broken yet. The only damage at all is a few gashes in the base, and those are easy to fix.

I was thinking the same thing Jonny when I saw a lot of delaming on people's boards when I rode with them. Whats everyone else think?

[kevinb]

just to point out, the weapons were a sidewall construction. at least the pair i saw were. personally i think all skiboards should be sidewall, no more of this shitty cap construction bullshit. it just delaminates way too easily.

kevin

[tommy]

everyones saying something about new skiboards next season and evereyones talking about different ones by the sounds of it, at the moment its sounds like theres going to be so many skiboards out that every skiboarder out there could have a different board, its good having new companies but by the sounds of things the industry could be overloaded, i do want the weapon idea to come back dont get me wrong but i dont want the sport overloading because then skiboard companies wont make profit will have to stop making skiboards, no skiboards to skiboard on, its logical really. im not moaning just pointing something out.

T

[kirk]

tommy, i agree exactly. The first thing we need to do tho that will help is have everyone ONLY support skiboarder owned and operated companies. I know most people here do that already, but so many out there don't have a clue. as long as people keep buying salomons and keep hearing from everyone on the skiboards.com board that companies like fischer and line are 'supporting skiboarding just because they still make boards', we won't be able to have more core companies popping up with any chance of survival.

[Jordahl]

yeah we need to take it 1 step at a time. i would like the design of the boards to be like weapons but im so used to grinding on an edge i dont think i could do it on a plate, besides the most fun rail at our park is way to think for the plates anyways, ask court, even tho she does it smooth still, but yeah before we can have all these companies i think WE NEED MORE RIDERS WILLING TO SUPPORT GOOD COMPANIES not like salomon and line.

[PureVenom]

Hey kirk...have you seen the inside of the weapons before? Thats wierd that yours arent cap concstruction. Mine are and there are no steel inserts running through the board. They just make the boards like normal 360 degree steel edge with the plastics plate replacing one part of the wood core. After construction is done the edge is ground away at a 45 degree angle to expose the plastice plate. If you look close on your plates the edges still come into the plastic plate. That edge going through the plate and the fiberglass and base give it plenty of overall strength.You can see the (even on the plastic plate) marks where they ground it away. At least my old pair were like that (took them old ones apart :) )and my newer ones probably are too.

As for more skiboard companies. More skiboarder owned companies is a good thing. You can't have just one or two companies out there monopolizing the market if you want our sport to grow. More companies means more dollars for more comps and better products and longevity and options season after season. Then maybe companies like solomon and other ski manufacturers will realize their place and stick to making skis.
Instead of trying to play like they care anything about our sport.
WHEN THEY DON'T!!!!

[tommy]

nope i still stick with my view... but thats my opinion i suppose.

[PureVenom]

As for delaming...I think it is something we will always have to deal with a bit just because of how hard we push the limits of our boards. I know plenty of snowboarders that face the same problems. Well ones that ride hard and put their boards through the paces do anyways. If your boards lasted you forever you would never have to buy boards. Companies would likely go out of business at that rate.

[PureVenom]

You do make a verY valid point tommy but you would have to have soooo many companies for that to happen. Don't forget the US has not even caught on to skiboarding as much as the rest of the world. The world is a pretty big market.Even here the east coast has caught on to it more than the west coast. But slowly we are catching up and schooling more people about skiboarding.

[tommy]

yes but we cant push it to fast imagine say 3 new companys come out for next season thatsl like loads of companys out, and we could all cope with no new companys out. look at rollerblading theres like 8 different skate makes (im not counting but its around that) and there is tens of thousands of rollerbladers.

[PureVenom]

true...very true......but there are also a lot more skiboarders than we think. Worlwide? I mean again remember our little corner here seems like a big part of the sport but think on a larger scale. How many people do we not even know about because they can't come and join us and post and chat. I'ts a lot just as we cannot go to their sites and join their forums.

[kirk]

I think line made two or more different styles of the weapons. I've seen ones like mine, but I've also seen ones that had cap construction. I don't know if theres a correlation, but both of my pairs have sparkles in the top sheets, and I remember seeing ones without them before.

I don't know for sure if they are steel inserts, but when I hold the boards up to the light, I see two lines about three quarters to an inch wide running directly in line with the inserts. I never took them apart, so I don't know for sure.

[Courtney]

Mine are the same as Kirk's, not cap-construction. The bad thing I've found is they take a lot of hits and kind of chip easy. Besides that I love them. Heres some pics:

[Jonny W]

Kirk i think what you are seeing, is 2 carbon strips, the manufatures use it to stiffin the boards.
and with my own boards i'm not talking about after a season the edges are broken and the skiboard is delamed under foot, i'm talking 2 seriose rail sessions and the boards are screwed. Gets to be frustarting riding broken boards all the time.
I think the answer is Side Wall construction. grind plates? or thicker steel edges.

[kirk]

Thanks jonny, thats prolly what they are, the carbon strips. I just assumed they were for the inserts cause i didn't know. That really sucks with your boards tho. Snag a pair of weapons if you ever get a chance. They handle rails and abuse better than anything ive ever seen.

[Roussel]

delaming is a manufacturing screw up. not cuz of cap construction, but becuase moisture goes in between the layers.

[PureVenom]

really? Thats wierd. My weapons don't have any sparkles in them at all. Hmmm....very interesting.

[PureVenom]

The ones with the sparkles seem a little thin and the grind plate looks different. I'll have to post pics of my boards and see what you think.

[Roussel]

maybe u have the japanesse ones.

[PureVenom]

Well when I bought them I was looking at the line website and it said cap construction. However I do remember someone saying beware of line knockoffs back then. All line skis are cap construction that I know of. Well...it's the "4D fiber cap" now. Even their twin tips. I have had two pairs of weapons...a pair of bullets and 3 pairs of five-o's and all have been cap. Wierd man....

[Jonny W]

cap construction isn't as good as sidewall construction, except the new hybrid caps that they are coming out with, and the hybrid ones are pretty much on the same level as a sidewall.
moral of the story. burton, sims, flow, m3, forumn, k2, the leading brands in snowboarding, don't even make cap boards anymore, except little kids and some womans boards.
also i'm aware delaming is a manufacturing defect, its just a shame that all my boards delamed. and all my boards we're cap construction, as well when i was working at the ski shop, 95% of the delames we're on cap struction boards that i saw.

[tkmalan]

Have 2 pairs of weapons both sidewall. Didnt know they made capped. Thanks to Revel8 we now have boards that arent 10 years behind in construction tech.

[ZwingZ]

i have a pair of weapons with cap construction and no sparkles as well.

[Jonny W]

man heres proof g listens to the riders. i made this thread along time ago. i can't wait for my revel 8's. i'll post a review soon they should be here today or tomorrow.
jonny w

[zenderfall]

Sidewall construction definately is better than capped construction but it's not a cheap thing to do.

Skiboards de-laminate because the manufacturing process was cheap, inexpensive, and the quality control was on a budget.

Manufacturers always have to balance quality with budget, mass-production with handmade care, and marketing with construction costs.

Have you noticed the pricing of the sidewall boards (Revel8, Nomad, Custom110) are a lot higher than the capped boards?

I've never seen skiboards hitting $300.00 until the C110's came out.

I've also noticed that sidewall boards (skiboards and snowboards) are made in first-world countries like USA, Canada, Austria, etc, while cap boards are made in China.

[jsinger]

Sidewall construction adds about $10 to $12 to the manufacturing cost of a pair of skiboards which translates to about $30 to $40 higher retail price - not a big deal.

At this point, sidewall boards are made by all first-rate manufacturers no matter where they are located.

[Mark]

my weapons are defintiely cap construction, what exactly is delamination? where the top sheet peels off ? anyone have a photo?

[Branden]

if u want an indestructable board buy a ct8. just dont expect any POP. they are 2 x 4's with an armored car shell... :_P

[skierbrent5530]

does any one know if the Icelandic sb/skis are cap or sidewall
and delaming is when the base comes off the top sheet

[Roussel]

delaminating is when the adhesive fails and the layers split appart, top sheet or base.

[PureVenom]

Side wall construction is tuff as hell but if you hit rails a lot and your boards click each other a lot than you will get lots of chipping on the top sheet. Not that you can't ship cap construction boards....just not as bad it seems. Looks at courts weapons on the previous page. That's side wall. I have never had any problem with any of my boards and they are all cap construction. Personally I think both are good but they are only as good as the people who do the assembly. Crappy assembly= Delam and cracking which leads to breakage.

Zenderfall....cap boards are not made in china. Maybe some lame ass no name brands but....line boards are not made in china. They are made in Canada. Canons were cap also and they were made here. Hell...even snojam is made in Canada. Loken boards are Cap constreuction and they are definitely not made in China. The cost of materials has gone up so the price of skiboards does as well. A lot of the things used to make boards are petrolium based so the price of oil dictates the rise and fall of petrolium based products as well.

[JUNGLEKID5]

i dont ride that much park and i still have problems with delame and broken behinde the binding.. it dose suck and i do like cap constuction not a huge fan of side wall... im with you jonny

[slackercruster]

Originally posted by Jonny W
why don't they try something different with skiboard manufacturing, it seems to me that cap construction on skiboards for more aggressive riders isn't working to well. every trip we go on i see someones boards delamed on the tip or tale, or right under the binding as every pair of skiboards i ever have owned has done. I know I do alot of rails and i should expect that sort of thing, but now how often do you see high end snowboards and twin tip skis made with cap construction? never. The line weopons we're a great concept, i would like to see someone build off of that.
anyone else have any ideas, cause its starting to get lame

Yes, I agree with the old Lines. I had many of them and no problems. Line was a good model to copy.

[taimos]

Branded how are the CT8/El Bajongs for park?

I'm an all mountian skiboarder really, but would like to try out the park when i go at easter, I have the El Bajongs, will I still be able to do a few kickers and rails given thier supreme stiffness (and they are mega stiff).

thanks

[Branden]

Branden*. they are great for the park. they are better on the rails than the jumps. if u only do smaller jumps then no problem. but with larger jumps the landings tend to be harder to land because the landing zone u have to be in is verysmall, since the boards are so stiff. if u land just slightly on your tails they will go out from undernieth your butt. and ull be slidin' for yardssssssssss. if your 75%-free ride and 25%-park the ct8s/El Baj's are for you. if you are 75% park and 25% free ride like me. grab a pair of apes.

[taimos]

Thanks man, am very glad I bought them (El Bajong) then, thats likely as to what i'll be doing.