Home Shop "Demo" Release Bindings

[Bill]

We really enjoy introducing new riders to skiboarding, that's the reason we hang on to our old Head Big Easys. It’s not our favorite ride, but it's okay. For loaners and introducing folks to skiboarding the toolless, quick-fit release bindings are quick to fit any boot right on the spot. We have a few pair of old Line ffcams that work well for this, but some are nervous about non release. Also, wrestling with nonreleasers doesn’t always make a good first impression when everyone else is simply stepping into their bindings. We think the Spruce 120 is a great ‘board for new riders to try. Obviously the ffcams don’t work with those.

Spruce Risers are great, but not really made for instant boot fit duty. When folks are renting boots on the mountain, it’s hard to predict exactly what their sole length is going to be. After some thought and tinkering, I bought a pair of used but serviceable “Demo” release bindings, similar to the bindings on the Head Big Easys. These can almost always be found fairly cheap on ebay, and are commonly used on rental skis. The ones I bought happened to be Tyrolias, but Solomon and others make a similar product. I mounted these to a home made riser plate drilled for 4x4 and 4x10. The stack height is close to Spruce Risers, which was tricky since the demo bindings are higher than regular releasers to allow for the adjusting track.

Here they are. We’ll likely hit our local resort this weekend with some friends and try these out.

http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo205/TractionBooster/CIMG0831010.jpg

[jjue]

nice job Bill !
ps when I bought my first spruce riser/binding , a while back I asked Jeff Singer about doing a custom mount with a rental type adjustable binding on his spruce riser ,so that folks with different boot sizes could easily use the spruce riser sytem on different boards .. he reasearched it and found some bindings that he could use with a minimal amount of extra work on his part on his risers . and was willing to sell me a custom mounted rental/demo binding riser . I never pursued it because I didn't want the extra weight and just bought the standard pro primes.. but for those less handy then Bill in the home shop who are interested in this idea .. I would recommend they contact Jeff Singer who might be able to sell them a custom mounted binding like this on his riser.. as a complete package.

[Bill]

Jack, I'm not sure it's possible to come up with anything you haven't already thought of! LOL

I do have a comment about Jeff and Spruce Risers. Most folks probably take these for granted, and it may seem like a simple idea on the surface, but there's a ton of thought, craftsmanship, precision and attention to detail that goes into these. It's really apparent when you try to 'make your own' and study how this fits and that gets fastened and so forth...these are definitely not just "thrown together". Folks should know that Spruce Riser/bindings are a first quality product and, in my opinion, an outstanding value.

[Bullit62]

Jack, I'm not sure it's possble to come up with anything you haven't already thought of! LOL

I do have a comment about Jeff and Spruce Risers. Most folks probably take these for granted, and it may seem like a simple idea on the surface, but there's a ton of thought, craftsmanship, precision and attention to detail that goes into these. It's really apparent when you try to 'make your own' and study how this fits and that gets fastened and so forth...these are definitely not just "thrown together". Folks should know that Spruce Riser/bindings are a first quality product and, in my opinion, an outstanding value.

QFT!

Not to mention that Jeff is a pleasure to work with when it comes to answering noob questions about his boards! ;)

[FightingForAir]

I'm in ... whether it's a Jeff Singer version or a Bill version.

I don't trust myself to try to do it well and correctly but I have several friends that are interested in trying out skiboarding and I'd love to be able to adjust a pair of bindings on the fly on some better boards rather than putting people on my Heads.

Guess I'll try Jeff first .... but if that doesn't pan out ...

Bill .... you interested in doing another set if I were to pay you for it?

As well ... I'm wondering if that type of binding might be too high on the Spruce riser.

[slow]

Nice job Bill.

I took a different route. I have a number of release binding/risers set up for various lengths and just swap them on the skiboards based on who is using them. Three set ups seems to cover all those that use them as loaners or among our family members.

[Bill]

As well ... I'm wondering if that type of binding might be too high on the Spruce riser.

Robert,

I think so. The "track" on the demo bindings I used would add over 1/2" to the stack height compared to the bindings mounted on my Spruce Risers. That's a bunch. I compensated with a lower riser plate to approximate the same height as the Spruce Riser/binding combo. I have no idea how other demo bindings compare, height-wise, I chose these because they were cheap on ebay. From Jack's comments, it sounds like Jeff knows of a "low profile" demo binding.

There's no question, if Jeff can supply one of these that's the way to go. As a matter of fact, if he wants to make a short run of them I'd spring for another one myself.

If worse comes to worse I could put another one of these together, but it was over a year between deciding to make one for myself and getting around to doing it. This is the OPPOSITE of the type service we are used to from SBOL and Spruce!

[rgzip]

Very nice Bill,
I would love to have a setup like that but I don't have your skills.

[rgzip]

Bill,
How far back does the toe piece move from it’s most forward position? I'm curious to see if there’s a way you could use a setup like this for “on the fly”set backs in powder.

[Bill]

Bill,
How far back does the toe piece move from it’s most forward position? I'm curious to see if there’s a way you could use a setup like this for “on the fly”set backs in powder.

I would guess 6-7 cm. It would work great fot that application, especially if set up with bindings mounted on the riser so a known boot size is centered on the skiboards at the forward most position on the bindings. Mine is set up to fit a range of boot sizes, not for setback, which would limit the setback capability.

Tonight at home I can measure and post the exact distance.

[rgzip]

I would guess 6-7 cm. It would work great fot that application, especially if set up with bindings mounted on the riser so a known boot size is centered on the skiboards at the forward most position on the bindings. Mine is set up to fit a range of boot sizes, not for setback, which would limit the setback capability.

Tonight at home I can measure and post the exact distance.

Exactly what I was thinking. If I set it up so my boot is center mounted when the adjustments are all the way forward, then I could just adjust them back on the mountain for powder.

[Bill]

Exactly what I was thinking. If I set it up so my boot is center mounted when the adjustments are all the way forward, then I could just adjust them back on the mountain for powder.

Apparently my 6-7 cm guess was pretty good, the range of travel on these bindings is almost exactly 6.5 cm (2 9/16").

There's no question bindings set up this way would be slick for on-the-go setback. I've kicked around a couple of other ideas to accomplish this, all of which amount to a lot more machine work. One would involve a 2-piece riser, the base of which would be dovetailed and slotted like a weaver style rifle scope base and the top fastened similar to weaver rings. Don't know how practical that would be but it would look cool, LOL.

[jjue]

I've kicked around a couple of other ideas to accomplish this, all of which amount to a lot more machine work. One would involve a 2-piece riser, the base of which would be dovetailed and slotted like a weaver style rifle scope base and the top fastened similar to weaver rings. Don't know how practical that would be but it would look cool, LOL.

Hi Bill , you might be interested in this patent that actually went in to production and was available for purchase in Canada for a time under the name Powdermagic ski .. it was a short fat ski with a two piece riser with the binding attached to the top riser which was slotted and moved along the lower riser and was attached via a simple pull pin screw ... this was truly an on the fly set back adjustable ski .. it was intended to be used as a backcountry climbing ski and used to ski in all conditions by varying the position of the binding on the fly .. the rider would kind of assess the conditions and then decide the position of his binding at the top of the mountain .. forward for firmer snow and backward for pow .. i should have bought the darn thing when it was available on line , just for the binding .. unfortunately , the inventor got into a heli ski plane accident became very ill and died and his widow would not selll any more of his skis for fear of liability issues etc.. his reasearch ideas and patent discussion make for fascinating reading and really help to understand why skiboards work so well and what set backs do for short skis and skiboards ..

Here is a link to the original web site archived on the internet web archive site

http://web.archive.org/web/20040102173835/http://powdermagic.com/

Here is a link with downloadable pdf images and full text of his invention

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5871225.html

[Bill]

... used to ski in all conditions by varying the position of the binding on the fly .. the rider would kind of assess the conditions and then decide the position of his binding at the top of the mountain .. forward for firmer snow and backward for pow .. i should have bought the darn thing when it was available on line , just for the binding...

Thanks for the links and info Jack, here and on the other thread you posted, that's great stuff. Mr. Sutherland was definitely an "out of the box" thinker, and had ideas that were ahead of his time. Too bad you didn't snag one of those bindings, it would be nice to have for study. Parts of his design look like they might be problematic for one reason or another, but it's hard to tell without actually seeing one. I've kicked around ideas for a two-piece riser/interface for toolless on-mountain setback adjustment and have not come up with anything that's practical or at least an improvement over the version 2 Spruce powder plate.

[FightingForAir]

Sent an email off to Jeff tonight to get the inquiry out there ... sent the link to this thread.

I'd be in for at least one set if he were to do a run.

[FightingForAir]

Got a reply from Jeff. It's a no-go through him.