New Skis vs New Skiboards - Head to Head Show down !

[jjue]

I have a very ugly confession to make . I thought I would hide it ,but these things are just better brought out in the open . Since last year I have been lusting after the Rossi BC 125 Backcountry ski. This was no old school cross country ski but a full on telemark ski in a short 168cm length with a 125mm tip , and 97mm waist, and 115 tail .. uber wide by backcountry ski standards AND with a fishscale base for climbing wtihout skins .Had great reviews .. a crosscountry backcountry ski that turned like a maniac at resorts as well . It was made in two flexes one for those over 160lbs in weight and a soft flex for those under 160lbs . Like all shorter skis however, fashion trends in the long ski world killed the idea of a short 168 one size fits all ski and this year the stiff flex board was replaced with three sizes of soft flex board with the proper size for a guy my size 185cm in length. I guess size is everything in the Long ski world and the big boys just can't be caught with a "little"girly size 168. Well ORS in Vermont were having a fire sale on last years 168 stiff flex model and I couldn't resist the 185 dollar price and snapped a pair up . Mounted the thing with my favorite (now discontinued ) VPII voile telemarkk binding and took it up to Northstar today along with Rockered Condor mounted with my custom modified touring Receptor binding (Line FF pro front bales , and custom backcountry touring heel designed by Bill ,here on the forum) so I could use the same telemark boots on botth boards . This would be a knock down , head on , fight of one type of riding against another , on the same runs . Would I go back to being a telemark long skier , stay a skiboarder , or maybe be schizo and split my time on both boards. ??????

Ok here we go .. the new ski and the new skiboard . ready to have at it ....


Ok first up Rossignol 168 telemark ski .....


The day was nice . man made snow softening in the sun and very nicely groomed ...


First few turns on these skis and I realize that I have scored big time . These are very nice .. I drop into a few drop knee tele turns .. man they feel good .. haven't done this for a while ... .
then make some alpine parallel turns .... edge hold that goes on forever , feet right together ...
turning off my heels , skis rocket right into a turn .

Ok , I have told most of my long ski friends that I have been captured by a cult of guys and gals on little skis and have been brainwashed and I have taken an oath not to covet or ride long skis ever again and extole the virtues of sticks shorter then what little kids ride !!! Now I know ,I have been brainwashed .. these things are way fun slarve . smarve .. no need to do any of that .. steeps icy slopes are piece of cake on long skis with nice sharp edges and stiff camber ... ok I am ready to send in my resignation on SBOL forum and switch back to Telemarktips where I belong .. Speaking of belonging .. I am one of the crowd again .. .guy in long skis ... no one says WTF are those .. . I am just accepted as one of the crowd . Hmmm , I did bring those Rockered Condors up the Gondola and they are waiting for me at mid mountain . .maybe I should just give them one last try before calling Greco and telling him I am through with this strange cult .

Ok back down to midmountain switcheroo is done and I am off on the Rockered Condor ..
Here is how my set up looks .


first thing I notice is damn are these things unstable .. I can hardly turn them , they are squirrley . .maybe it is the damn tele boots .. maybe I need my snowboard binding set up ... . weird . I thought I like these things , then I realize .. I am standing tall just like on my skis and trying to carve the things off the tail like skis .. hell these aren't no skis . these things are skiboards .. and I need to skiboard the damn things ... I remember that Greco has just put up a video of himself riding these very same Rockered Condor ... I assume the Greco pose , yeah crouched leaning forward and going fast .. yeah very fast .. bingo ... I am a skiboarder again and these damn things are the berries !!!! Oh my lord , just lean and the things carve like a dream in a tight euphoric arc that is nothing like the lazy arc of a long ski , this goes up on edge , wonderful .. i can slide or carve or spin or do anything I want .. .I can drop anything and everything and I feel like I am in Ferrari not a Humvee ... i CAN'T STOP LAUGHING .. DAMN even when you have a great run on a pair of the long sticks , it cannot in anyway hold a candle to how I feel on these shorties ... Nah ... no way , no resignation for me ... I AM A SKIBOARDER !!!!!!

[sempai]

Thank goodness you have decided not to go back to the darkside.

[Dave Bloom]

Snollerbladers 4 Life!!!

Every single time someone offers me even one run on long skis (I have yet to ride them) I know I would miss the great feel of my skiboards for even one run. I haven't even touched my snowboards since I got on skiboards. I love it too much. It would be like taking off my rollerblades to skateboard for even five minutes. I just love what I do and see no reason to do anything else. It's not about a comfort zone, but more simply the love for it.

[valmorel]

Jjue.... you're bored aren't you

[jjue]

Jjue.... you're bored aren't you

LOL , Valmorel , you got that right ..... for a backcountry adventure rider like me , this lack of snow has been bad....
the groomed slopes are nice and the weather is nice , but makes me just want to spend more money to test things out or do weird mods on the things I have !!!

[Dave Bloom]

How about perfecting riding fakie with the new Condors on at least the thinner powder coating the resorts? One of my goals this year is riding fakie well in powder.

[jjue]

How about perfecting riding fakie with the new Condors on at least the thinner powder coating the resorts? One of my goals this year is riding fakie well in powder.

yeah , sounds good Dave ... I am beginning to work on that ..

[Belle1708]

Whoa, I got scared there for a second... PHEW! Crisis averted!

It's not about ski/skiboards being better than the other. We're blessed to have the choice of 1 or both!

I will probably, one day in the far future, try a pair of long sticks. But I can't see loving them near as much as I love my little ones. I LOVE my skiboards. I don't fix what ain't broken!

[Faceplant]

Jack,

this thread would've been soooo perfect around 10pm on March 31st with a few edits to your ending comments...

Just goes to show that you're truly a nice guy.

[shortydude]

My next pond skim attempt will be on long skis. My last one on 120's didn't work out like I visualized.

[mahatma]

jjue,

I love this thread. I dig your humor and your realization. Personally, I think it's important to experience other forms of snow sliding. It reminds us of why we love skiboards so much. Other devices feel different and even have their own advantages as tools. But, on scale, nothing, absolutely nothing is as life reaffirming and enjoyable as skiboarding. It never hurts to relearn that lesson. This thread helped me just yesterday. I was up at Kagura with some people I know. It was a typical, stormy Kagura day. The snow fell and the wind blew all day long. I spent the morning surfing the Sherpas and decided to grab the 188's in the afternoon. My first run was down a comfortable, intermediate that is at its' steepest is 30 degrees with over the boot powder and the chop being top of boot. I did that same run in the morning on the Sherpas and glided it like I was born on it. The Side Stashes almost killed me. I banged the tips together twice threatening to high-side me on both occasions and was a complete disaster when I wasn't banging my tips. I didn't make one decent turn. Then, your words came to me - I was trying to skiboard on skis. Ahhh, so back up to the top I went, jumped off and got lazy. I let the tools do the work. Long, lazy, down the center turns while sort of just swinging my poles out and letting them drop in front to initiate the next barely discernible turn. I swept down in record time burning up the lane, got to the bottom and was decidedly less satisfied than doing that run on Sherpas. So, off I went to different stashes just to have the same experience. I was faster for sure and if I were to admit it to myself I was more comfortable. I was also much more of a passenger than an active participant. Was there anything wrong with that? No, nothing at all. But, it wasn't as interesting or fun and left me a little hollow. Plus, I had to work harder to "jump" the 'stashes around tight lif stanchions and the like and I was sort of stuck in other peoples lines as opposed to plowing through the goodness and creating my own way. Other tools are fine. Good stuff. Skiboarding fills me inside like nothing else.

[Nessagirl18]

this scared me so bad.......

[jjue]

,,, Personally, I think it's important to experience other forms of snow sliding. It reminds us of why we love skiboards so much. Other devices feel different and even have their own advantages as tools. But, on scale, nothing, absolutely nothing is as life reaffirming and enjoyable as skiboarding. It never hurts to relearn that lesson. ......

More lessons learned.... yesterday I took out my Teleboard for the first time in many seasons ... I really like this weird telemark mounted mono ski /narrow snowboard ... but I didn't like the fact that it was really awkward to reach behind me and snap the rear telemark binding lever in this thing . The Teleboard is provided with inserts but not an insert pattern that supports a step in telemark binding I own ... so I drilled the board to mount the step in bindings .... this was NOT SUCH A GOOD IDEA but more on that later ...... .

Here I am clicked in and ready to go .... Step in bindings worked great


Here is a side view of how narrow the board is .


. Here are the dimensions
SPECIFICATIONS: Length 181cm; Dimenions (tip, waist, tail) 195mm, 122mm; 179mm; Sidecut radius 9.3 meters; Effective edge 158cm.

So the thing is narrower at the waist then one of my Condors ! But it has a very tight side cut radius for a 181 cm long plank !

Here is an old video of guys who know how to ride this thing well ( this strange device has been around since 1998 or so ... there are very , very few riders , much smaller community then skiboarding !)


The reason , I got into skiboarding in the first place was because of the Teleboard . I really liked this thing in backcountry snow .. kind of like waterskiing in powder , but I needed to carry the board in my back , and outfitted a variety of skiboards and short skis with telemark bindings to use as approach skis carrying my board . The skiboards would go on the pack on the descent ( until I realized that I could just ride the skiboards down and ditch the Teleboard altogether and have just as much or more fun LOL )

I never was very good or practiced much carving on groomed snow . Well guess what , all my practice on skiboards on firm snow immediately transferred to carving the Teleboard . We skiboarders become expert and getting our supercarvers right up on edge and learn what that edge really feels like as we rocket into our turns . In fact , skiboards are the tighest , best damn carving devices in the snowsports universe . I immediately understood how to feel the edges of my teleboard better and carved great on the thing . This thing carves trenches in icy groomers , you have our entire weight out layed over on one edge of facing in a forward stance ... It is alpine sknowboard carving taken out to the nth degree .

It is super fun and stable , but I miss something , it is the playfulness of my skiboards .. how I can vary between carve and slarve and spin and can play in the softer snow on the side of the runs , and make tighter turns ... I like how both my feet are free and not locked together on one board ... I miss skating around .... I miss not getting rid of my poles ( this Teleboard is hecka unstable side to side and I cannot ride this thing like some guys can without my poles )....

Ok , but I am getting a bit cocky on this thing ... and head out to the steep icy black diamond Martis run ....I make some nice initial turns and start going faster right up on edge on the icy snow ... but hit a patch of ice going fast and slam right down into a slide hard ...
First lesson learned.... on my Rockered Condor I have 270mm directly underfoot of a smooth sliding rockered board directly underfoot , the Rockered condor is the best skiboard I have ever used on ice ... it transitions smoothly from carving right into a controlled slide better then anything I have ever used. I feel supremely confident that carving at speed on icy steep slopes on the Condor that I will FEEL the edges start to slip and then be able to smooth move into a controlled slide without sliding out ... this has become 2nd nature to me in this season of icy steep groomers ... on my supercarving Teleboard , there is nothing of this , it has better edge control then any snow sliding device I have used .. it carves and edges in ice like no tommorrow , but when you ultimately lose that edge , it is catastrophic , one minute everything is hooked up and nice and the next moment you slam down hard .. nothing like that smooth , controllable .. transition ... Lesson learned ... Rockered condor much better on steep ice then Teleboard

Second lesson , learned.. there is a reason for insert mounted snow sliding devices. My rear telemark binding rips right out of the board in the hard fall . Sh*t , here I am essentially with one foot in my board and no way to get my other foot back on ... I side slip down slope , and then walk all the way to the bottom ... takes a long , long time ... when I get to the bottom .
This has happended to me once before . The nasty memory comes flooding back . It was a Mammoth on a very steep many years ago with Alpine release bindings on Long skis , I took a fall and instead of releasing the damn rear binding pulled right out of the ski ( I do keep my DIN settings very tight ) ... Thank god that Greco has decided NOT to drill bindings EVER in skiboards and has supported from the get go the idea of insert mounted bindings .

I ask the liftie what I should do ... He says take the lift back up to the top and then go ask the ski patrolman to give me a sled ride back to the midstage gondola station ....

So I do that , and apologize to the patrollman about inconveniencing him to give me a ride to the bottom .. it would otherwise be a very long walk .. He says no problem at all .. so I am put in an sled , you know the kind that they take injured folks down hill .. I kind of get to sit propped up , and get a fast tobaggon ride down to mid station . Fascinating because the patrolman took me right down the black diamond Face slope , slarving back and forth in that same fast side slipping turn I do on my Rockered condors down sleep icy slope , It was great fun having my sled go straight down the slope while he held the bars of the sled and just would slarve , side slipping controlled and at speed from right to left right down the slope .. with snow flying into my face ..... I wish I had a camera to snap a picture ... this stock image from the web will give you an idea of how it looks from inside a sled ..

I have my Rockered condor in the car ... and sure wish I had time to go get it now .. but this adventure has taken a long time and I have to go to work Damn , wish I had ridden my Rockered Condor .

Final lesson learned, go back to skiboards.....

[shortydude]

Is that first pic of clicking in taken on the back side of the Heavenly Nevada side?

[valmorel]

Ha ha Jjue.. you are bored aren't you Please tell me it will snow again in Cali. How much more of your junk are you going to have to pull out before you burn it all except for your skiboards?