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  1. #1 The backcountry touring kit 
    Hardcore Skiboarder slow's Avatar
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    ** NOTE **
    THE BTK IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE


    For other back country skiboard touring options please refer to:


    This thread is being kept as an archive only:

    THE BACKCOUNTRY TOURING KIT


    The Backcountry Touring Kit (BTK) is a custom designed skiboard binding accessory developed by backcountry skiboarders. It is not a commercially marketed product at this time and is not supported with service or warranty. Rather, it is a prototype binding accessory kit being offered at a nominal suggested donation value (for the cost of materials) plus shipping to those skiboarders who wish to support the testing of the limited number of available prototype kits. The objective is to receive test rider improvement suggestions that would be considered for future updates of the BTK.




    Note that the BTK is just one of five accessories required to convert your Revel8 skiboard binding and skiboard into a backcountry skiboard touring system. The four other accessories are a hardwire heel assembly, crampons, climbing skins and ski poles. These accessories plus the skiboard and binding are not part of the kit and need to be purchased separately to complete the system.

    THE BTK CONCEPT:



    The rear bale and binding block of a Revel8 non-release binding are replaced with a pivot toggle assembly and the front toe lever is replaced with a modified toe lever. In descent mode, the BTK equipped binding is used in the same manner as the stock binding by locking in the ski boot using the toe lever. The hardwire heel assembly is conveniently stowed without removal by pivoting and then securing it with a leash to the rear of the ski boot.



    To use the system in ascent mode, the ski boot is unlocked from the skiboard binding, the skiboard with binding is turned 180 degrees and the toe of the ski boot is placed under the top cross bolt of the pivot toggle assembly. The hardwire heel assembly is used to force the ski boot to remain engaged with the pivot toggle assembly while allowing the heel of the boot to lift off the binding while climbing. When required for ascending steeper grades, the modified toe lever can be pivoted into an elevated position to serve as a heel lift.


    NOTES:
    • The BTK has been created for use with Revel8 Receptor non-release bindings and Condor skiboards.
    • Compatible Bindings:
      • Revel8 2011 Receptor Non-Release Binding with Lift Kit
      • Revel8 2010 Receptor Non-Release Binding

    • A minimum ski boot sole length of 298 mm is required for the BTK to function.


    Before volunteering to participate in the testing of the BTK, you need to:
    • Be honest with yourself. Is there a high likelihood you will use the BTK in appropriate backcountry touring conditions during the 2010/2011 season?
    • Have friends that are experienced backcountry riders that you can tour with.
    • Be willing to post pictures, reviews and design improvement suggestions for the BTK.
    • Be willing to cover the cost of shipping and make the suggested donation to cover the cost of materials for the kit.
    • Email (address removed) and request the BTK User Guide that details:
      • Warnings and recommendations you need to be aware of, your responsibilities, and the risks you need to accept.
      • The BTK installation instructions to allow you to determine if you have the mechanical aptitude to complete the installation correctly and that you have the required tools.
      • The additional backcountry accessories required to use the BTK. These accessories are an additional cost to you as are the skiboard, skiboard bindings and the avalanche safety equipment you will also require. Links are provided so you can determine the cost of these additional accessories.
      • The on-mountain emergency repair suggestions.
      • Links to touring tips and technique information.
      • Links to avalanche safety information.
      • The procedure for checking availability and requesting a BTK.
      • How to make a donation and pay for the cost of shipping.
      • Complete an “open book” questionnaire to verify that you have read the BTK User Guide.

    We look forward to your participation in the on-going development of the BTK.

    ........ the BTK design team


    ** NOTE **
    THE BTK IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE


    For other back country skiboard touring options please refer to:
    Last edited by slow; 08-20-2012 at 07:25 PM. Reason: The BTK is no longer available.


    Osprey, Sherpa, Custom Coda 120WT, Custom DS110, Condor (Green), Spliff

    Custom Twist Out duck foot bindings, Bombers (custom duck foot base plate and 3 pads), releasable S810ti on custom duck foot riser

    Nordica N3 NXT ski boots (best so far)


    Wife: 104 SII & 100 Blunt XL with S810ti bindings on custom "adjustable duck foot" risers

    Loaners: 125LE, 105 EMP, 101 KTP, 100 Blunt XL, 98 Slapdash, 88 Blunts
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  2. #2 Review of BTK 
    Hardcore Skiboarder bec2745's Avatar
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    Ok I got to use the BTK on a few (8-10) occasions this year. I apologize for this review taing so long and i will be trying to post a more extensive one with pictures and some videos after the season ends for real and i can have some time to breathe.

    But tokeep it brief here in ascention mode it worked like a charm 90% of the time.

    There were two occasions where i guess crampons would have helped but not having them i dont know. One was in about 6-8'' of fresh windblown snow skinning up a black diamond on piste trail. The other was a side country trail where it was somewhat windblown, narrow and you were climbing at an angle to the fall line probably a 15 degree pitch. The latter was one that my long skiing buddies struggled with too. But overall they worked just like they should. Free heeling up felt solid and I didnt worry about torqing the front hinge too much wich i was worried about in intial looks at the set up. The one minor issue I had ocasionally was that the jeel elevator (toe clips) sometimes had a tendency to slip out of position mid climb causing me to get thrown off balance when putting weight on that foot expecting my foot to stop sooner then it did. I couldnt figure out an easy way to get it to stay in place so I usually ended up adjusting my climbing if it became persistant.

    Another point I think is helpful is that skin savers in my opion would have been worth the extra price. My buddies were way faster and neater in applying and removing skis with them then I was without. Otherwise once situated the clips and skins worked as advertised. Like has been sugested here I think leaving a touch of your edge exposed rather then wall to wall skins is a better choice because I ended up sidestepping some of the shorter steeper sections wich was much easier after exposing some metal edge. My long ski buddies that wanted to sidestep the same sections due to steepness/icyness couldnt cause the trail was too narrow. HAHA.

    The final part of what i have to say is the saddest. Unfortuenately I broke (bent severly) them.... Im not sure in wich order it happened, but two things happened only one of wich i know the exact timing. Wich was the tele cables came un hinged from thier clip on the heel piece (downhill position). I rode with them tightly tucked into the liner of my pants. But once free on one side got tangled up in everyting going on and bent one of the arms very badly. This i know happeded when dropping a 12'ish cliff onto fairly solid landing wiht some pow on top traveling at a good speed. The other thing that happened and this one im not sure how/when, it could have been at the same time. But the bale that locked our heel in. straight bar/screw on BTK opposed to curved on receptor bent by maybe about 1/3-1/2''.

    I did make somwhat of a habit of riding these things really hard. After all we went to the BC to get what was more extreme then on resort. Regularly dropping 6-20' cliffs with them on. Htey just didnt make it the whole season. I think the idea in principle is spot on and fudamentally works perfect. Just some tweaks and beefing up in some areas and you definately have a great product.

    Ill try and go more in depth and put up some media showing it in action when I get some time. But all in all i really did enjoy it and thank all the guys involved for creating it and giving me the chance to get out of bounds and have some of my own fun. I definately want the next iteration of it if there is one. If not Id still want another one of these. Thanks Guys.


    PS i didnt mean to put a sad face in the title.... i am not sad at all... very happy in fact. I ant figure out how to remove it.

    PPS i figured it out.
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  3. #3  
    Hardcore Skiboarder jjue's Avatar
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    thanks so much brian for your review ! you ride the gear much harder then the rest of us who have tried the BTK and it is great getting your perspective !
    1/ brian , I am not sure I understand what you mean by skin savers... do you mean the strip down the center of higher priced skins that makes them easier to pull apart ? or do you mean the plastic sheet the comes with higher priced skins that is put between the glued surfaces of the skin to store ?
    2/ the use of straight rather then curved pieces for the BTK /heel -toe piece is something we actually worried about ... can you take a picture and show us the bent piece ?
    3/ one option and one design that is actually on the prototypes is to make the telemark cables easily removable on and off . this would obviate the chance of damaging the cables on the descent
    the difference would be that the cable would be put on before climbing and removed and stowed in the pack for the descent , the current thick rubber stoppers do make it a little harder to just snap the cables on and off easily
    4/ I agree that the front lever used as a heel elevator is not perfect ... but we did multiple other designs and it really is a difficult thing to get to work perfectly ,

    thanks again ! your review and comments are super important to this project and appreciated by all of us involved in the design process!
    Boards :
    Blunt Xls -SBOL Modified GNU Rear Entry Snowboard Bindings
    Rockered Condors- SBOL Modified Sims Cipher Snowboard Bindings
    Rockered Condors - Backcountry modified RVL8 Receptor Binding -
    Spliffs -Backcountry modified RVL8 Receptor binding
    Spruce Osprey - Center Mounted with Spruce Backcountry riser/ Ambition AT binding
    Spruce Sherpa - Rear Mounted with Spruce Backcountry riser/ Fritschi AT binding

    Boots:
    Ride Insano Snowboard Boots
    Full Tilt Booters
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  4. #4  
    Hardcore Skiboarder bec2745's Avatar
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    1/ http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com...s/cheat-sheets.

    2/ sure can next chance i get

    3/ yeah i think either easily removeable or completely permenant would be the only two options. the way it is now its just real hard to get on/off making me feel like i should take them off but at the same time not wanting to fuss with them that long at the top with all the freshies bekoning

    4/ id say it worked perfect 75% of the time. i did have a few runs where it stayed the whole time. others that it wouldnt stay for anything anf some where it popped out once or twice. and i have no idea how to make it better besides maybe notching the base plate with grooves for the toe bale to rest in. just not sure how that would work out with adjusting the bindings and the fine grooves that go with it.
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  5. #5  
    Hardcore Skiboarder slow's Avatar
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    Brian, thanks for the review and testing in extreme conditions. The feedback is very much appreciated.

    As Jack suggested, please post a picture of the heel bale that bent. As for the telemark cable assembly, I suggest you do not use the rubber bumpers and remove the cable assembly and put it in your pack when descending if hucking cliffs.

    Thanks again for the feedback.


    Osprey, Sherpa, Custom Coda 120WT, Custom DS110, Condor (Green), Spliff

    Custom Twist Out duck foot bindings, Bombers (custom duck foot base plate and 3 pads), releasable S810ti on custom duck foot riser

    Nordica N3 NXT ski boots (best so far)


    Wife: 104 SII & 100 Blunt XL with S810ti bindings on custom "adjustable duck foot" risers

    Loaners: 125LE, 105 EMP, 101 KTP, 100 Blunt XL, 98 Slapdash, 88 Blunts
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  6. #6 cheat sheets 
    Hardcore Skiboarder jjue's Avatar
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    As Brian pointed out cheat sheets are supplied with more expensive skins, and not with the climbing skins direct brand skins I recommend . These sheets are applied in between the glued surface of the skins. Most folks use them for long term storage of their skins . Some folks use them in the field . I myself don't use them and just stick my skins together glue to glue both in the field and for storage .
    Here is a discussion of pros and cons of using the cheat sheets.

    http://www.telemarktalk.com/phpBB/vi...32255f0f90dc5b

    Climbing skins direct sells 130mm skins for 109 dollars they do not come with sacks or cheat sheets
    Black Diamond sells their 125mm skin for 155 dollars , it does come with sacks and cheet sheets
    Also the tip hardware supplied with the Black Diamond skins doesn't work well with the very wide flat tips of the Revel8 Skiboards.

    Here is what Climbing skins direct says about why they don't provide stuff sacks and cheat sheets


    "Why don't you sell cheat sheets and stuffsacks?

    Our goal is to bring you the best skins, at the lowest price, and with the least waste! We could include stuff sacks with the skins, but that would up the price. Never mind that that most people don't take the time to stuff their skins back in the bag at the top of every hill or can’t hang onto accessories to save their lives. So instead we opted to sell just the skins and bare essentials for less money and offer an optional stuff sack on the side. Likewise with the long term storage sheets that are available through other companies, we found that many people either lose the sheets or don't find them necessary. So we again decided to only include the essentials and keep the price right!"

    I own both a pair of the Black Diamond Ascension Skins and the Climbing Skins Direct skins and I think they are equivalent in glue strength and performance . I did have to buy separate bungee tip hooks for my Black Diamond skins to use with my Condors (( the proper tip hooks are supplied with the climbing skins direct skins )

    Besides the Climbing Skins Direct skins , another brand with the proper tip hardware to use easily on Revel8 and Spruce skiboards is the Backcountry Access Skins . Here is a link to the proper skin for the Condor .
    http://www.bcaccess.com/bcastore/eng...oductID=125417
    This does come with a sack , as I remember I don't think it comes with a cheat sheet , but not sure .

    One thing to remember about the unique design of the Revel8 and Spruce skiboards is that the tips are ultra wide and flat straight across , whereas regular skis , even big fat pow skis have a taper to the nose that allows tip hardware like the black diamond hardware to work . I really haven't found that anything stays on as good on Revel8 and Spruce skiboards besides the bungee tips that are supplied with the BCA and Climbing skin direct skins.

    The new adjustable black diamond tip loops look like a pain to get adjusted to your ski . and I really don't even know if it would work at all with the our flat ultra wide skiboard tips .. Here is a link that describes the use of the new adjustable black diamond tip loops that are supplied with their skins... Give me a simple bungee tip any day !!
    http://www.tetonat.com/2009/08/17/in...kin-tip-loops/
    Boards :
    Blunt Xls -SBOL Modified GNU Rear Entry Snowboard Bindings
    Rockered Condors- SBOL Modified Sims Cipher Snowboard Bindings
    Rockered Condors - Backcountry modified RVL8 Receptor Binding -
    Spliffs -Backcountry modified RVL8 Receptor binding
    Spruce Osprey - Center Mounted with Spruce Backcountry riser/ Ambition AT binding
    Spruce Sherpa - Rear Mounted with Spruce Backcountry riser/ Fritschi AT binding

    Boots:
    Ride Insano Snowboard Boots
    Full Tilt Booters
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  7. #7  
    Hardcore Skiboarder mahatma's Avatar
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    jjue,

    This is a good topic. I've actually been meaning to ask you about the float of skiboards vs full size skis vs snowshoes. I know you've done it all ways. Also, I was up at the "old shop" a few weeks ago lamenting with boys over everything that is going on and we ended up breaking out a pair of Alpine Trekkers and throwing them on a set of K2 DarkSide's that were sitting around that oddly enough had alpine bindings hooked up to them (a set of P-14's w/o brakes) and grabbed different boots to see how the trekkers took them. There were some issues but not much that wasn't solved by putting the trekkers on the boots first and then into the bindings and raising up the small heel lifter to keep the boots from crashing against the binding arm. A little less than perfect but entirely functional. So, turning the question to skiboards - are there issues with using trekkers with our riser plates and an even bigger question is the fabrications of crampons for that whole setup. Any insight?
    "It's no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" Jiddu Krisnamurti

    Spruce Sherpa - RVL8 KTP - RVL8 Blunt XL
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  8. #8  
    Hardcore Skiboarder jjue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahatma View Post
    jjue,

    This is a good topic. I've actually been meaning to ask you about the float of skiboards vs full size skis vs snowshoes. I know you've done it all ways. So, turning the question to skiboards - are there issues with using trekkers with our riser plates and an even bigger question is the fabrications of crampons for that whole setup. Any insight?
    With respect to climbing in soft snow , I really don't like snowshoes much for powder they just sink too much for my tastes , in terms of skiboards and full size skis .it just all depends on the surface area , more float for climbing the more surface area you have . , skiboards doing better then expected compared to long skis of the same surface area because the surface area is on a wider shorter platform underfoot ...

    as for trekkers check out this thread...
    http://www.skiboardsonline.com/forum...ad.php?t=11043
    I don't like them and gave mine to MitchK, making crampons work would be tough , one option for crampons would be drilling the crampon attachment in front of the binding or riser....
    Boards :
    Blunt Xls -SBOL Modified GNU Rear Entry Snowboard Bindings
    Rockered Condors- SBOL Modified Sims Cipher Snowboard Bindings
    Rockered Condors - Backcountry modified RVL8 Receptor Binding -
    Spliffs -Backcountry modified RVL8 Receptor binding
    Spruce Osprey - Center Mounted with Spruce Backcountry riser/ Ambition AT binding
    Spruce Sherpa - Rear Mounted with Spruce Backcountry riser/ Fritschi AT binding

    Boots:
    Ride Insano Snowboard Boots
    Full Tilt Booters
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  9. #9  
    Hardcore Skiboarder mahatma's Avatar
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    jjue,

    Even without the height of our riser the trekker creates a stack height that I was told makes crampons more of a challenge and that's assuming you can get the right size crampon for trekkers and your underfoot tool. Not impossible but they were noted by those who have used them in crusted, difficult traverses to be less stable and therefore disliked. I'm sure I'm not the first winter enthusiast who wants to avoid the massive layout for dedicated touring equipment. I mean, I'm not being a penny pinch but when I look at 1K for bindings alone to have a skiboard and ski setup, then a few hundred each for skins, another Benjamin for crampons per setup and if I'm doing all that a fresh set of boots with a walk mode all equals a lot of money. While I do believe that skinning is much more efficient compared to shoeing I'm currently bulking at this type of outlay when shoes while less efficient are no less safe for what I'll be doing for the next few seasons. My mind is currently telling me to wait until I see myself doing real-deal touring for at least a weekend or if my "territory" expands to include terrain where shoes become a safety deficit or I'm such a boat anchor to those I'm with due to posting in and what have you that a full out touring setup becomes necessity.
    "It's no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" Jiddu Krisnamurti

    Spruce Sherpa - RVL8 KTP - RVL8 Blunt XL
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