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  1. #1 Spruce Riser Solution vs. Drilling Bindings Directly into Skiboards 
    Moderator / Hardcore Skiboarder Greco's Avatar
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    Hi all,

    I just received this email and the misinformation contained in it concerned me enough to make me want to create a record so I and others could refer to it when the question comes up again, which it will. Please feel free to add your own experiences. Thanks, Greco

    Q. Hi, I am looking to get some skiboards & been trying to look at the options, one thing that confuses me is that skiboards.com say the Spruce Riser plate and bindings can be dangerous. None of the major ski binding manufacturers endorse modifications to how their bindings are mounted to either skiboards or skis. Their comment is that there is no way to tell if these bindings will release when they are supposed to, as the riser introduces a foreign element into the equation. In addition you lose the convenience of step in and go, as you have to still use leashes, as brakes don't work due to the additional height. We will not sell these. i hope you can help?

    A. Thank you for contacting us and giving us the opportunity to discuss the information you received. Skiboards.com didn't have a problem with the Spruce riser solution when they were selling it a number of years ago. It wasn't until the owner of Spruce refused to supply them any longer because of a number of business issues that they started passing misinformation about it. Spruce is an authorized Head/Tyrolia dealer, has sold over 500 pairs of the risers and has not had one issue. It's the proven best solution which allows the tightest possible connection between skiboards and bindings. It allows more of the board to flex and gives the customer many more options in terms of being able to remove and change their own bindings. In addition, when bindings use the 4x4 inserts the skiboards can be made lighter and more flexible because the skiboard's core does not need to be made very thick or have a metal plate built into it to hold wood screws. Spruce offers a leash and a brake option, both work as designed.

    Please let me know if you have any other questions, my phone number is 1.888.819.2492 - Greco

    Please read more about the benefits of 4x4 in this FAQ
    Last edited by Greco; 03-10-2015 at 01:09 PM.

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  2. #2 Riser Facts 
    Founder | Spruce Longboards & Bindings jsinger's Avatar
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    I thought I would inject a few verifiable facts into this discussion. As the designer of the Spruce Riser, I'm familiar with it's configuration and use as well as the use of other risers manufactured by binding and ski companies.

    First, Head/Tyrolia sells a comprehensive line of risers themselves for use with their bindings and skis. They are termed "plates" but operate exactly as the Spruce riser does in substantially raising the height of the ski binding above the top surface of the ski. Of particular interest here is the Head "Raceplate RDX", which is used to raise the height of Head racing bindings above the top of the ski to give racers more leverage when turning. Clearly, Head thinks that risers (or plates) are a good idea when looking for an advantage in racing.

    One of the safety advantages of the Spruce riser is its rigidity. When a two-piece binding is mounted flat on a ski, it must react to the change in length between the toe piece and heel piece of the binding as the ski is flexed in a curve. This change in length is accommodated in the binding by the forward pressure spring, so it's not normally a problem. It has however, been reported by some hard chargers that long skis can suffer from inadvertent binding releases when a ski rebounds during bump skiing. In the case of the Spruce riser, the binding that is mounted on it never has to make a length adjustment since the riser has a completely rigid and flat surface that the binding is mounted on.

    In terms of brake performance, Head publishes specifications for each of the 11 brake types that they sell that determine whether a given ski, riser and binding combination are compatible with a particular brake. The weights of the ski, riser and binding as well as each of their heights are taken into account when determining whether a particular combination is safe for use. In the case of Spruce risers and the Tyrolia bindings that come mounted on them, they are in conformance with respect to weight and brake length for all skiboards sold by Spruce and by SBOL. So, brakes on Spruce risers and Tyrolia bindings used with all skiboards from SBOL and Spruce are certified by Head to be completely safe in stopping a released skiboard.
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  3. #3  
    Hardcore Skiboarder Bluewing's Avatar
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    Greco - thanks for posting this.

    Jeff - thank you for the technical details.

    Raceplate RDX - stand height = 14.5mm; Spruce risers stand height ranges 41-46mm.

    Spruce risers get the job done. I have been riding Spruce Pro Sport risers for a few years with zero problems. My daughter rides Pro Sports as well - I would never put her on anything I didn't trust completely.

    I think the simplicity of the design overshadows the brilliance of these risers. High quality materials, high quality construction, assembled by highly skilled individual. I don't think any patents are held on these, which is surprising. Honestly, I am surprised skiboards.com and other companies haven't copied this design it is so good and really has opened up a whole new aspect of skiboarding in terms of safety, performance and binding options.
    In pursuit of Peace, Harmony and Flow.....
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    Boards ridden, some owned: Sherpas, Spruce 120 "STS", Blunts, DS110 custom prototypes, Rockered Condors, Revolts, DLPs, Summit Custom 110s, Summit Marauders, Head 94s, Raptor prototypes, Osprey prototypes.
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  4. #4  
    Moderator / Hardcore Skiboarder Greco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluewing View Post
    Greco - thanks for posting this.

    Jeff - thank you for the technical details.
    You're welcome. I would like to have riders who own the Spruce riser/bindings reply with their impressions. Any problems or issues?

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  5. #5  
    Hardcore Skiboarder slow's Avatar
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    I currently have 7 pair of spruce risers including 3 pair of the original composite risers and three other pair that I given to friends and family. Absolutely zero issues experienced in 10 seasons. A very robust and reliable product based on my experience with them and I therefore never hesitate to recommend them.


    132 Osprey, Custom Coda 120WT, Custom DS110, 110 Condor (Green), 109 Spliff

    Custom Twist Out duck foot bindings, Bombers (custom duck foot base plate and 3 pads), releasable S810ti on custom duck foot riser

    Nordica N3 NXT ski boots (best so far)


    Wife: 104 SII & 100 Blunt XL with S810ti bindings on custom "adjustable duck foot" risers

    Loaners: 125LE, 105 EMP, 101 KTP, 100 Blunt XL, 98 Slapdash, 88 Blunts
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  6. #6  
    Hardcore Skiboarder Bill's Avatar
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    I'd have to take an inventory to know exactly how many pair of Spruce risers I own, but at least half a dozen in nearly every version from the original composites to the present model. In addition to using them on a many different skiboard models I've installed inserts on numerous long skis and ridden those with Spruce risers. Between myself, my family, my friends and everyone I know personally, riding narrow skiboards, wide skiboards, short skiboards, longboard skiboards, hybrid skiboards and long skis we've experienced exactly zero problems and experienced consistent releases at welcome times, plus flawless brake performance.

    It stands to reason that release bindings mounted on a rigid platform such as the Spruce riser (as opposed to directly on a flexible ski or skiboard) are going to perform more consistently. We've found this to be the case in practice as well. In my opinion, the only reason this ingenious product isn't offered on all skis and skiboards is because the big ski companies want to mutilate more skis, sell more bindings, and anyone who implies they are somehow unsafe is being irresponsible and dishonest.
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  7. #7  
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    I've been using Spruce Risers since 2004 and have not had any problems - EVER. After I found the best din settings for my boot size and riding style, the bindings have only released when they should and I never had a time that I thought they should have released and didn't. Brakes worked without a hitch as well. I highly recommend Spruce and Jeff Singer wholeheartedly. I have owned a number of Spruce products. Jeff has stood behind all of his products and supported them very well. For releasables, Spruce is the way to go. Being able to swap out the bindings to other skiboards is something I take for granted now, but it is a great benefit to have over the direct mounting that skiboards.com does. I can also corroborate that skiboards.com used to sell Spruce bindings without any reservation. There were no disclaimers or anything of the sort. It was only after they could no longer sell them that they started to make the false claims against them. Here is a screenshot using the waybackmachine of skiboards.com's site from May 9, 2008, which shows Spruce Mountain in the drop down of the list of bindings they sold (see red box below). This goes back to 2004.


    http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/...pskrsgcuun.jpg

    Spruce and Jeff Singer have been instrumental in supporting and progressing the sport of skiboading.
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  8. #8  
    Hardcore Skiboarder FightingForAir's Avatar
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    I have owned many pair of Spruce riser/binding set ups since 2009: Spruce Pro Sports, Pro Lights, Pro Primes, and Pro Prime Plus. All have performed flawlessly with only one exception. I had a binding heel piece blow out on one set but that was the fault of the binding (Salomon Z10), not the riser. On that same Tahoe trip, another rider also blew out a Z10 binding. Since Spruce no longer uses those bindings, I have no concerns with the safety or performance of any Spruce gear.

    Assuming your have your DIN set correctly, the bindings on the Spruce setups release when they should and don't release when they should not. After a release, the brakes do their job and stop the skiboard from rocketing down the mountain.


    To compare and contrast. I have had a few pair of Summit boards in the past. I typically keep a pair of Summit Marauders and a pair of Summit 110s with direct mounted demo bindings for use as loaners when I take newbies out with me. The versatility of the demo bindings just makes it much easier to adjust for different sole length boots. The Summit boards with direct mounted demo bindings are perfectly fine for this purpose, however I do not ride the Summit boards myself. Reason being: I have ripped factory-installed, direct mount bindings out of them twice carving hard and fast on hard-packed groomers. I've also had one of my skiboarding friends rip a binding out of a Summit Marauder in similar conditions. After that, he had a local shop install inserts so he could use Spruce risers on his Marauders. He's ridden the Marauders with Spruce riser/bindings now for three seasons with no issues. If you ride hard and aggressively on hardpack, it is likely not a matter of "if" but rather "when" you will experience a direct mount failure. And let me tell you, blowing a binding out, losing an edge abruptly and thus high-siding at 40+ mph and slamming yourself into that icy groomer is no fun.

    I've also tried two different custom riser set-ups I had built by a local manufacturing shop. While those seemed to perform well, after my blowout with the Salomon bindings, I decided to stick with what is known and proven with the Spruce risers. Thus, Spruce is all I ride now unless I'm on long skis.

    I would prefer that my skis had inserts so I could use my Spruce Pro Prime Plus. Thoughts of ripping a binding out sometimes creep into my head, and it would be nice to have a higher stand height for more edging leverage since all three sets of skis I use are very wide. For now, I am just settling for the direct mounted bindings on my skis, but I may have inserts installed in them at some point.

    This is all a long way of saying, I've tried a lot of different setups; Spruce riser/binding packages are rock solid and the best option for release bindings on skiboards.

    On another note: While I do keep a couple pair of Summit boards for newbie loaners, I only do that for the convenience of the demo adjustable bindings. While the Summit boards are fine for most purposes, RVL8, Skiboardsonline, Spruce... Greco and Jeff... are the companies I'd prefer to give all my business to. They are just good companies, good people, support the sport and stand behind their products. Customer service is excellent, and you know you are getting very high quality gear.
    Last edited by Greco; 01-24-2015 at 01:51 PM. Reason: I
    Skiboards: Spruce Sherpas and custom Coda Yetis (in 140 and 145 cm)
    Skis: Armada JJs, Armada Magic Js and Icelantic Keepers
    Bindings: Spruce Pro Prime Plus risers/bindings on skiboards, Marker Griffons on the skis
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    Past: Revel8 Tanshos, KTPs, Revolts, DLPs, Condors; Spruce Raptors
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  9. #9  
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    I own four pairs of risers including the original composite riser. I have never experienced a lot problem with any of them. Doc Roberts is a nut!
    Now: 08 Sherpa's (2), Atomic 120's,, Rossi 130's, 2011 Summit Marauders, 2013 125 Protos, 125 LEs, 2014 Sherpas, Osprey protos, 2015 Blunt XL's, 2016 Ospreys, Ethan Too twintip skis
    Bindings: Spruce Risers and Tyrolia LD12's
    Boots: Full Tilt Booters, Tecnica Agent 110
    History: Atomic shorty's, Sporten, Groove Taxis, Head 94's, ALPs, Spruce 120 Blue boards, Custom Lacroixs, Rocker Condors, 08 Summit 110's, Hagan offlimits 133's
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  10. #10  
    Hardcore Skiboarder valmorel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjeong View Post
    i own four pairs of risers including the original composite riser. I have never experienced a lot problem with any of them. Doc roberts is a nut!
    lol. +1
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  11. #11  
    Hardcore Skiboarder Bad Wolf's Avatar
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    We've got three pairs of Spruce risers and have never had any problems with them. Great product I would recommend to anyone.

    I would appreciate clearer guidance on DIN settings when using them on skiboards. There was a document here once that recommended the heel being set to half of what was recommended. But that seems to have disappeared. I would like to know if our DINs should be adjusted for board length.

    I have always received great customer service from Doc. I have spoken with him many times and he is generous with his time and willing to work with you on prices and products. I do not like his negative marketing and comments about Spruce and RVL8. That is a little nutty!
    Last edited by Greco; 01-24-2015 at 01:52 PM.
    Just these, nothing else !

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  12. #12  
    Hardcore Skiboarder valmorel's Avatar
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    Bindings release when they sense a load. That load is measured by the DIN standard. That is hopefully about what a body can stand, not what a ski generates. Consequently your DIN setting should be about you, not your ski.
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  13. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by valmorel View Post
    lol. +1
    It pisses me off to see Doc is still lying about the riser. I bought two pairs of the blue 120s from doc along with a pair of composite risers.
    Now: 08 Sherpa's (2), Atomic 120's,, Rossi 130's, 2011 Summit Marauders, 2013 125 Protos, 125 LEs, 2014 Sherpas, Osprey protos, 2015 Blunt XL's, 2016 Ospreys, Ethan Too twintip skis
    Bindings: Spruce Risers and Tyrolia LD12's
    Boots: Full Tilt Booters, Tecnica Agent 110
    History: Atomic shorty's, Sporten, Groove Taxis, Head 94's, ALPs, Spruce 120 Blue boards, Custom Lacroixs, Rocker Condors, 08 Summit 110's, Hagan offlimits 133's
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  14. #14  
    Hardcore Skiboarder Bad Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valmorel View Post
    Bindings release when they sense a load. That load is measured by the DIN standard. That is hopefully about what a body can stand, not what a ski generates. Consequently your DIN setting should be about you, not your ski.
    That's what I thought, but was directed to the "50%" document when I first joined the forum.

    So the best plan is to use the ski DIN charts and not worry about making adjustments?
    Just these, nothing else !

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  15. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Wolf View Post
    That's what I thought, but was directed to the "50%" document when I first joined the forum.

    So the best plan is to use the ski DIN charts and not worry about making adjustments?
    I set my heel around 50% less than the toe. Fred, Steve and Marianne are also setup this way due to my influence. This setting works depending on how you ski. If you are park riding, you can't set the heel so light. You will release trying to save an off balance landing. Din for the most part must be modified for riding style. I've had to up my toe piece setting to avoid prerelease in moguls and hard carves. Din charts will also say that you need to reduce one din at the age of fifty-five. This won't work for me as I ride just as hard now as before when I was younger.
    Now: 08 Sherpa's (2), Atomic 120's,, Rossi 130's, 2011 Summit Marauders, 2013 125 Protos, 125 LEs, 2014 Sherpas, Osprey protos, 2015 Blunt XL's, 2016 Ospreys, Ethan Too twintip skis
    Bindings: Spruce Risers and Tyrolia LD12's
    Boots: Full Tilt Booters, Tecnica Agent 110
    History: Atomic shorty's, Sporten, Groove Taxis, Head 94's, ALPs, Spruce 120 Blue boards, Custom Lacroixs, Rocker Condors, 08 Summit 110's, Hagan offlimits 133's
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