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  1. #1 Help a noob decide. 
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    Hi guys!

    So after testing out some original old school Kneissl BigFoots recently I decided I fancy some skiboards and so did some research in the last few days and compiled some options. If you could help me decide, that would be great!

    The facts:
    - Living in the EU
    - 1,81m
    - around 190lb... or maybe up to 200lb in winter (damn cookies and all)

    The want:
    Some kind of all-mountain boards. I'll mostly spend my time on the groomed runs, resorts, etc. for sure but I can see myself hitting some powder (once my skills reach a point where certain death is... well, less certain). Although I can see myself going for easier to use boards for the groomers at first and in the next few years for secondary boards for the deep as well.

    The current options:
    - Move out of the EU
    - RVL8 Blunt 88cm
    - Mantrax FR 99cm
    - Twoowt Vipers 106cm
    (- Twoowt Lions 109cm)
    - Twoowt Deep 111cm

    Bindings:
    - Mantrax fixed
    - PHK Reactor fixed
    - Risers + Tyrolia Attack11 (for all options except the RVL8 Blunts)

    So what do you guys think? The cheapest option would be the Mantrax for sure, followed by the RVL8 Blunt with fixed binding.

    When it comes to the Twoowts, I know there are several more options, I'd prefer the Deep and Vipers however as they have the newer, more durable surface treatment. The Lions/Dark seem to be great allrounders as well though (long, wide and slightly narrower in the back to allow for some great maneuverability).

    The Twoowt Deeps look cool and I'm certain they'd be awesome in powder. However, due to their length, width and being zero-cambered I'm not sure about their abilities on the groomers and possibly on the occasional ice. They are touted as allrounders but that might be meant for people with a certain skill level, that I certainly don't possess yet.

    The Twoowt Vipers are probably awesome on the groomers but due to their sub-10cm width under foot I doubt they would be great in powder.

    What say you? I kind of tend the most towards the RVL8 Blunt 88cm or Twoowt Deep. I think the Blunts would be great for a beginner (and I could get bigger skiboards for powder in a couple years) although the Deeps could *potentially* be that great allrounders I'm looking for. Unless of course you guys tell me no, the Mantrax is all I need? Uff...

    Thanks for your help!
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  2. #2  
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    Short update: I just heard I should be able to get the following boards too:

    - RVL8 Sticky Icky
    - RVL8 Spliff
    - RVL8 KTP
    - RVL8 Condor
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  3. #3  
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    If you are looking for an all-arounder Iíd lean toward the KTPs, stickies, spliffs, or lions. The vipers will probably be too narrow for powder, the deep too wide for groomers. The condor might work since itís cambered even if itís as wide as the deep.

    Full disclosure: I have ridden the KTPs spliffs and lions (and I do own the vipers but havenít ridden them), my opinions on the others are based on specs and other peopleís reviews

    The KTPs are stiff and aggressive boards, but will do wonders on groomers and the non-bottomless powder. They have a setback option to help with powder performance though which is something to consider.

    The lions and spliffs are less stiff, and even with similar width profile they will ride differently due to the lion being full camber and the spliffs being rockered and cambered. So the spliffs will be more maneuverable. For powder they should be about even simply due to the fact that the lions have setback inserts (for fixed or releasable) like the KTPs, but the new spliffs have setback (for risers only) as well as rocker which helps in powder.

    The stickies seem to be many peopleís choice for an all-around board, since they are narrow enough for groomers but have rocker and are slightly softer for powder. Keep in mind though that, like the new spliffs, the setback is only an option with the risers not fixed bindings.

    The blunts would probably be too small for someone your size in powder, but likely would have a ton of fun in the right conditions. I personally would just think the performance profile is limited but I havenít ridden them

    I realize this may just be a lot of info thatís not helpful to you in making a decision so I guess Iíd just say to make your choice focus on three factors
    1. How much time are you really going to spend on/off piste and in how deep of snow?
    2. Do you like softer or firmer boards?
    3. Do you value maneuverability over stability?



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  4. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toro View Post
    If you are looking for an all-arounder I’d lean toward the KTPs, stickies, spliffs, or lions. The vipers will probably be too narrow for powder, the deep too wide for groomers. The condor might work since it’s cambered even if it’s as wide as the deep.

    Full disclosure: I have ridden the KTPs spliffs and lions (and I do own the vipers but haven’t ridden them), my opinions on the others are based on specs and other people’s reviews

    The KTPs are stiff and aggressive boards, but will do wonders on groomers and the non-bottomless powder. They have a setback option to help with powder performance though which is something to consider.

    The lions and spliffs are less stiff, and even with similar width profile they will ride differently due to the lion being full camber and the spliffs being rockered and cambered. So the spliffs will be more maneuverable. For powder they should be about even simply due to the fact that the lions have setback inserts (for fixed or releasable) like the KTPs, but the new spliffs have setback (for risers only) as well as rocker which helps in powder.

    The stickies seem to be many people’s choice for an all-around board, since they are narrow enough for groomers but have rocker and are slightly softer for powder. Keep in mind though that, like the new spliffs, the setback is only an option with the risers not fixed bindings.

    The blunts would probably be too small for someone your size in powder, but likely would have a ton of fun in the right conditions. I personally would just think the performance profile is limited but I haven’t ridden them

    I realize this may just be a lot of info that’s not helpful to you in making a decision so I guess I’d just say to make your choice focus on three factors
    1. How much time are you really going to spend on/off piste and in how deep of snow?
    2. Do you like softer or firmer boards?
    3. Do you value maneuverability over stability?



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    That has actually been very helpful thank you! So basically it was really a coincidence after my initial post that I found out that I should be able to get the Spliffs, Sticky Ickys and KTPs as well. And I think I will also stick to one of those. As you just confirmed I was afraid the Twoowt Deep would be to wide whereas the Viper would be too narrow.

    I will use raisers with release bindings (I'd be comfortable with non-release on the 88cm blunts but not above 100cm... I put on a lot of mass in the recent years but my bone structure is still really thin) so I think I could use the set back option that way.

    So basically it's a question between the 3 now:
    - SII
    - KTP
    - Spliffs

    Regarding your 3 questions:
    1. For now probably mostly on piste (so at least currently more of a nay for the Spliffs)
    2. I have too little experience to answer that tbh.
    3. Since I prefer cruising and enjoying myself over speed I'd say maneuverability rather than stability. As I mentioned above I came from long skis where I absolutely hated the maneuverability straight to oldschool 63cm bigfoots. They were slow, had little support at the back but were a lot of fun in terms of maneuverability. Personally I had no issues with stability on those but my gf gave them a try (at the end of the day) and found them more fatiguing as well as having chatter issues when riding faster and when it got steeper. So I guess that's also more of a 'nay' for the Spliffs?
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  5. #5 Help a noob decide. 
    Hardcore Skiboarder Bad Wolf's Avatar
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    It really is hard to truly find an all mountain board, so I always think itís best to pick the boards that will perform the best for you on the conditions you will encounter the most. Otherwise, you end up compromising. It sounds like you want a fun board for the groomers and value maneuverability over high speed stability, so go with the Ickys. When you are ready to venture off pirate you could add a board like the Spliffs, RCs or XLs.

    If you go with a release riser system, like Spruce, you open up the possibility for switching between boards in your quiver.
    Just these, nothing else !

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  6. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Wolf View Post
    It really is hard to truly find an all mountain board, so I always think itís best to pick the boards that will perform the best for you on the conditions you will encounter the most. Otherwise, you end up compromising. It sounds like you want a fun board for the groomers and value maneuverability over high speed stability, so go with the Ickys. When you are ready to venture off pirate you could add a board like the Spliffs, RCs or XLs.

    If you go with a release riser system, like Spruce, you open up the possibility for switching between boards in your quiver.
    Thanks!

    I think I'm not going to be able to get Spruce risers in Europe. I will get a Mantrax riser however and Tyrolia Attack 11 bindings with 110mm brakes. I think that would also be a good fit for the 106mm wide Ickys (with possibly needing a little bending). That binding set should set me back only around 150 Euro.

    What do you guys think? I could only get the SII in the 2018 design which is my least favorite of the 2017, 2018 and 2019 but that shouldn't be the limiting factor here. Would that be a reasonable choice?
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  7. #7  
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    Have you considered Eman Skiboards? I myself ride the eman uprise and they are really great carvers and I use them in the park as well. At the moment the edges are really bad, but I can still push them as hard as I can on their edges.

    I have not (yet) ridden them in powder, but this review says they handle and float well in powder: http://skiboardreview.com/2013/02/26...eman-uprising/.

    I am going to France for a week from Saturday and we might get some fresh snow, so if I will let you know how they worked out in powder if we get it.

    A nice advantage of them is that they come with inserts for the Tyrolia Attack 11 bindings, so you don't have to use a riser. The boards are also quite stiff, just so you know. Whether you like that is personal preference.

    Ordering in Europe is possible via skiboards.eu, and these are actually quite cheap. If you have any more questions, hit me up or post them.
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  8. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruben View Post
    Have you considered Eman Skiboards? I myself ride the eman uprise and they are really great carvers and I use them in the park as well. At the moment the edges are really bad, but I can still push them as hard as I can on their edges.

    I have not (yet) ridden them in powder, but this review says they handle and float well in powder: http://skiboardreview.com/2013/02/26...eman-uprising/.

    I am going to France for a week from Saturday and we might get some fresh snow, so if I will let you know how they worked out in powder if we get it.

    A nice advantage of them is that they come with inserts for the Tyrolia Attack 11 bindings, so you don't have to use a riser. The boards are also quite stiff, just so you know. Whether you like that is personal preference.

    Ordering in Europe is possible via skiboards.eu, and these are actually quite cheap. If you have any more questions, hit me up or post them.
    Yes I was actually considering them as a strong contender, however they are currently not available. The other czech boards I am still considering are the Mantrax. These should be available and are really cheap... about half or even less of what the rvl8s would cost me.
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  9. #9  
    Hardcore Skiboarder mhealey's Avatar
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    My vote is SII or Spliff. Rocker/camber skiboards are all the rage lately, and for good reason. They have an astonishingly wide performance envelope and very playful feel. The SII specifically sounds like the better fit for the riding you described, but if you are at all concerned with "outgrowing" the skiboards then I would pick the Spliff. That being said, I would imagine it is quite difficult or even impossible to outgrow the SII, I personally just like overkill so I ride the Spliff

    I have no experience with Eman or Mantrax skiboards so I can't really help there, but if budget is a really big concern, based on a quick look at the specs of the Mantrax boards I'd say they would probably work fine for you. There is no such thing as a perfect skiboard. Whatever you end up with, just focus on enjoying riding it and tailor your abilities to that specific skiboard's strengths and weaknesses and you will have a blast!
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  10. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhealey View Post
    My vote is SII or Spliff. Rocker/camber skiboards are all the rage lately, and for good reason. They have an astonishingly wide performance envelope and very playful feel. The SII specifically sounds like the better fit for the riding you described, but if you are at all concerned with "outgrowing" the skiboards then I would pick the Spliff. That being said, I would imagine it is quite difficult or even impossible to outgrow the SII, I personally just like overkill so I ride the Spliff

    I have no experience with Eman or Mantrax skiboards so I can't really help there, but if budget is a really big concern, based on a quick look at the specs of the Mantrax boards I'd say they would probably work fine for you. There is no such thing as a perfect skiboard. Whatever you end up with, just focus on enjoying riding it and tailor your abilities to that specific skiboard's strengths and weaknesses and you will have a blast!
    Thanks! What do you mean with "you like overkill" specifically? I heard the Spliffs ride fine on the groomers etc. as well but your technique needs to be more aggressive in order to get on the edges properly, whereas it's more effortless on the SII.

    That's funny as I actually had a look again yesterday evening and decided for that other option, which I think just makes more sense for now.

    I'll get the Mantrax + risers + Tyrolia Attack 11 binding which as a set costs an incredible EUR 235,-. That price is really just unbeatable considering that if I'd get the SII and the same set of risers and bindings standalone (they are 135,-) I'd have to pay 460,- plus an additional shipping fee of 30,- for the boards. So I'd get out with more than double the costs with just the boards being different.

    Budget is not really a big concern here but I'm thinking this option gives me 2 things:
    - I can learn on the Mantrax, find its "weaknesses" and get a feel of what I want in the future and make a better decision for next season's buy (e.g. maybe the SII 2020 with hopefully nicer graphics than the 2018 lol).
    - I get to use the risers and Attack 11 binding on the next boards I decide on, as well as having a 2nd set of cheap but decent backup boards I can use myself or lend to friends etc.

    What do you guys think? Over the long run buying another set of boards next season will cost more in total (compared to buying the SII right away) but considering that by then I'd be able to make better decisions on what I want plus the Mantrax boards effectively costing just 100 bucks minus the risers and bindings, I think that's a good deal.

    EDIT: Just realized there's a used RVL8 Revolt + Line FF bindings from the EU in the Sales Corner here for roughly the same amount as the Mantrax + risers + Tyrolia Attack 11 bindings. Damn that makes it a little tougher once again.
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  11. #11  
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    I'll throw my opinion into the mix, with the preface that I've only ever ridden the Condors, KTP's, and Lions. I'm similar to your size, at 1.9m and just under 200lbs.

    Of those three, I'd recommend the KTP's as your best choice. The short length means they are very maneuverable, and the stiff flex is great for bigger guys. The rear-set inserts also mean that they can do very well in powder.

    The Lions are also really good, but the 110 length makes them less nimble. As an all-mountain board, though, they are great. They carve really well, and the slightly slimmer tails help them sit back nicely in powder.

    The Condors will give you the maximum surface area, but they can be a lot of work in tighter conditions.

    I unfortunately don't have any experience with the boards that have a rocker/camber combo, but I will say that I've been very tempted to pick up a pair of Spliffs. I haven't considered the SII's because I don't think they'd give me the float in powder that I like.
    RVL8 Condors - The Flex will be with me, always...until I break them

    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming... "WOW! WHAT A RIDE!!"
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  12. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyBoy-1 View Post
    I'll throw my opinion into the mix, with the preface that I've only ever ridden the Condors, KTP's, and Lions. I'm similar to your size, at 1.9m and just under 200lbs.

    Of those three, I'd recommend the KTP's as your best choice. The short length means they are very maneuverable, and the stiff flex is great for bigger guys. The rear-set inserts also mean that they can do very well in powder.

    The Lions are also really good, but the 110 length makes them less nimble. As an all-mountain board, though, they are great. They carve really well, and the slightly slimmer tails help them sit back nicely in powder.

    The Condors will give you the maximum surface area, but they can be a lot of work in tighter conditions.

    I unfortunately don't have any experience with the boards that have a rocker/camber combo, but I will say that I've been very tempted to pick up a pair of Spliffs. I haven't considered the SII's because I don't think they'd give me the float in powder that I like.
    Haha this is tough. So basically I'd say there are 2 strategies I could go for.

    Cheap variant, get to know what I want and upgrade next year. A little more costs down the road but gaining one additional set of backup boards:
    - New Mantrax plus risers and Attack 11 bindings for 235,-
    - Used RVL8 Revolts plus non-release bindings for around the same price. Could be that I would need to buy an additional set of release bindings down the road if I decide of buying bigger boards later on.

    All out variant:
    - Spliffs plus risers and Attack 11 bindings for around 480,-. Basically this is the more extreme choice that can definitely go everywhere but due to the width might sacrifice a little performance on groomers, ice etc. or at least take more effort to do so.
    - Sticky Ickys plus risers and Attack 11 bindings for around 480,-. Certainly better on piste than the Spliffs but at the same time less float in powder. Although I read from several people that they do reasonably well with proper technique and with the set back.
    - KTPs with either release or non release bindings for around 450,-. These seem like a good mix between the Spliffs and the SIIs if I get them right? Not a rockered/cambered combo but with the set back and due to additional width over the SIIs these should float a little better in powder.
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  13. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cari66ean View Post
    Thanks! What do you mean with "you like overkill" specifically? I heard the Spliffs ride fine on the groomers etc. as well but your technique needs to be more aggressive in order to get on the edges properly, whereas it's more effortless on the SII.

    That's funny as I actually had a look again yesterday evening and decided for that other option, which I think just makes more sense for now.

    I'll get the Mantrax + risers + Tyrolia Attack 11 binding which as a set costs an incredible EUR 235,-. That price is really just unbeatable considering that if I'd get the SII and the same set of risers and bindings standalone (they are 135,-) I'd have to pay 460,- plus an additional shipping fee of 30,- for the boards. So I'd get out with more than double the costs with just the boards being different.

    Budget is not really a big concern here but I'm thinking this option gives me 2 things:
    - I can learn on the Mantrax, find its "weaknesses" and get a feel of what I want in the future and make a better decision for next season's buy (e.g. maybe the SII 2020 with hopefully nicer graphics than the 2018 lol).
    - I get to use the risers and Attack 11 binding on the next boards I decide on, as well as having a 2nd set of cheap but decent backup boards I can use myself or lend to friends etc.

    What do you guys think? Over the long run buying another set of boards next season will cost more in total (compared to buying the SII right away) but considering that by then I'd be able to make better decisions on what I want plus the Mantrax boards effectively costing just 100 bucks minus the risers and bindings, I think that's a good dea..
    What I mean by "I like overkill" is that I like knowing that I am never going to wish I had a bigger/more powerful board no matter what conditions I encounter that day. Realistically, most of my riding is done on groomers (65%/35% ish) and based on that, the more "ideal" setup for me would be something like SIIs, DLPs, Revolts, etc. However, I duck into the woods pretty much whenever I can, and in there I never know what I will find. It could be a foot of fresh powder when the rest of the mountain is packed down, or it could be barely enough snow to cover all the rocks. I like to have skiboards that will float over or plow through whatever I find easily and without significantly leaning back or adjusting my setback. Does riding a wider, longer board than I really "need" sacrifice a little bit of edge-to-edge quickness and grip on the ice? Sure, but IMHO not really by very much. On top of that, I tend to ride pretty aggressively and have fairly strong legs so I hardly notice the size difference to begin with. Taking all of that into account, the Spliff is a better fit for me than something shorter or narrower. If you tend to stay out of the woods or ride less aggressively, the SII might be a better fit. That being said, either skiboard could be used in either role - the SII has rocker for float and the Spliff still feels "in its element" when on groomers. It's just a matter of what style of riding you want your boards to be more biased towards.

    I think your plan to buy the Mantrax skiboards or the used Revolts is a good one. It's always good to have a second set of boards, plus we can talk all day on here about which skiboard is right for you, but ultimately the best way to figure that out is to go ride and see what your style is and what you like. That being said, if you went with the Spliff or the SII, I don't really see you feeling the need to "upgrade" in the future, you would probably be fine riding them for years. I know this answer is a bit of a cop out but that's just my perspective here
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhealey View Post
    What I mean by "I like overkill" is that I like knowing that I am never going to wish I had a bigger/more powerful board no matter what conditions I encounter that day. Realistically, most of my riding is done on groomers (65%/35% ish) and based on that, the more "ideal" setup for me would be something like SIIs, DLPs, Revolts, etc. However, I duck into the woods pretty much whenever I can, and in there I never know what I will find. It could be a foot of fresh powder when the rest of the mountain is packed down, or it could be barely enough snow to cover all the rocks. I like to have skiboards that will float over or plow through whatever I find easily and without significantly leaning back or adjusting my setback. Does riding a wider, longer board than I really "need" sacrifice a little bit of edge-to-edge quickness and grip on the ice? Sure, but IMHO not really by very much. On top of that, I tend to ride pretty aggressively and have fairly strong legs so I hardly notice the size difference to begin with. Taking all of that into account, the Spliff is a better fit for me than something shorter or narrower. If you tend to stay out of the woods or ride less aggressively, the SII might be a better fit. That being said, either skiboard could be used in either role - the SII has rocker for float and the Spliff still feels "in its element" when on groomers. It's just a matter of what style of riding you want your boards to be more biased towards.

    I think your plan to buy the Mantrax skiboards or the used Revolts is a good one. It's always good to have a second set of boards, plus we can talk all day on here about which skiboard is right for you, but ultimately the best way to figure that out is to go ride and see what your style is and what you like. That being said, if you went with the Spliff or the SII, I don't really see you feeling the need to "upgrade" in the future, you would probably be fine riding them for years. I know this answer is a bit of a cop out but that's just my perspective here
    Thanks again! I'm actually a little surprised hearing there is so little difference between the Spliff and SII for the groomers or ice.

    I guess I'll also have a talk with the lady on what she thinks... if she'd be interesting in trying them once in a while I might end up getting the Mantrax or the used Revolts, buy something like SII, Spliffs or KTPs next season and keep the other ones for her and as backup.
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  15. #15  
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    Firstly on the Mantrax: Here is my review for some years ago - http://skiboardreview.com/category/boards/Mantrax/FR/. It is essentially beginner skiboard.

    BTW have looked at the Eman range from skiboards.eu ? (They are not the same site at skiboard.cz). You will probably find the Eman Uprise a great carver for grommers - far better than the Mantrax. I remember using the Uprise in Jasna, Slovakia in seom deep snow some years. They did fairly well as long as one kept the tips up. There is also a review on the Uprise - http://skiboardreview.com/category/boards/eman/uprise/.

    Al said, depending on your budget you'll do very well buding some of the aforementioned Rvl8 boards or even the Spruce Crossbows.
    '18 Spruce Crossbow 115 + Spruce Pro Prime risers (Tyrolia Attack 13 bindings) [goto]
    '18 Spruce Osprey 13- + Ambition bindings plate-mounted [touring]

    '15 Spruce Osprey 130 + Ambition bindings + backcountry riser [touring]
    '12 Rockered Condor 110 + Spruce Pro Sport risers

    '14 K2 Pinnacle Boots
    '10 Spruce 120 + Spruce Pro Jr risers
    '13 Eman Uprise 104 + Custom Riser & SP100 bindings
    '11 Allz Elaila 94

    Previous: Gaspo Hot Wax 84s, Mantrax 98s, Summit Nomad 99s, Salomon RS80 boots


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