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  1. #1 Is skiboarding dying? And how can we save it 
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    Whats up guys. I hate to be that guy but has anyone else been feeling like the sport is going the opposite direction? It has been a small sport for a while but it seems to have really lost steam recently.

    For instance, I used to think it was bad that I would only see 1 or 2 other skiboarders when Id go to the mountain. Now I rarely see any.

    In fact, I have not seen 1 skiboarder this year. And I ski on the east coast where conditions are great for it.

    Im going to assume others have noticed the same thing and ask several questions:

    Why is this? Why the decline?

    And more importantly, how can we help the sport to grow?

    I feel that as a whole we dont do enough to get the sport out there. Most people have never even heard the term skiboarding. And those who know skiboarding by look usually just think snowblades, which carries negative connotations.

    I mean even around here, the forum isnt active. And in recent years I have noticed an uptick in people recommending junior skis rather than sub 110 skiboards, to new riders. If you want to ride junior skis that is fine. But I think we need to do everything we can to support skiboarding's core 110 and under community.

    Talon does a great job with his youtube channel but we nees more of that.

    But what else can we do? Rider meet ups are basically non existent. Even in the East Coast where everyone is fairly close by there is no shredfest or even a few people meeting up.

    I'd like to see the sport grow. Id like to see other riders and ride with other riders. And Id preferably like to avoid having to stock up on revel8 boards to last me the rest of my life if it gets worse lol.

    Anyway, what are your thoughts on this?
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    I havenít been around long enough to know the long term trend line, but as far as forum participation I think a lot got offloaded to Facebookís skiboard connection. While itís clear that group had grown, for a lot of the nuanced stuff I like it here, the repository of information is amazing and on FB itíll just get lost in history.

    I try to introduce people to skiboarding as much as I can, and I have been guilty of exploring the longer skis. But to me they serve different purposes. I wouldnít think about long (but still ďshortĒ) skis except in very specific and tricky conditions where I feel I want the effective edge and stability, and I think itís laughable when I see people with planks out east. Iím not sure anything can be done besides increased awareness and getting out on the slopes. I do think that the future of the sport is more in resort riding than park only because if the image isnít there, park riders they will ignore, but bombing even blues might help people struggling with long skis or seeing something different to make the switch.

    I personally came to it when I saw some people mess around on the slopes, then I went down the rabbit hole and saw what ďrealĒ riding on them could be. Coming from a snowboard background my gorilla stance was not conducive to long skis as it is to centered skiboards and I love it. I think video content (not just POV) is crucial for those who want to explore and in this regard Talonís videos are orders of magnitude better than what was out there when I went down the rabbit hole.

    Side note: I would also love to see SBOL get a site upgrade and would happily contribute to a gofundme or something for it. I think in line with the image thing there are likely a lot of people turned off by the design (whereas RVL8 site is more modern)


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    I think many people show an interest but do not want to invest in a purchase without trying.

    Maybe people or Rvl8 can setup a free test run on mountain for a few runs as a promo event? Or maybe setup a loan program by other skiboarders who have extra sets?

    There is some interest by people who see them but they do not want to take that financial leap. A new setup can get pretty pricey for the average "interest" in a thing that looks cool.
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    Well if sales or sold out boards on skiboardsonline are any indications , I think itís becoming a little bit more popular ?
    I look at that Facebook page and it keeps going up with new people joining all the time.
    Iím sure Talonís videos do help out with his subscription base and views , but just because you donít see the Skiboards while your on the mountain doesnít mean theyíre not there .


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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatSlyBastard View Post
    Why is this? Why the decline?
    I think one key reason for the decline of skiboarding is zero accessibility for the masses. Every sport has attrition from the aging out of its participants, so growth has to focus on attracting and keeping new ones. Two of the pillars of snow sports are the schools and rental shops, and the industry has settled on skis and snowboards. So when beginners go to resorts, they don't see skiboards, aren't told about skiboards, can't rent skiboards, can't buy skiboards, and can't take lessons to skiboard. So then, it is no surprise that they aren't ever going to skiboard.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatSlyBastard View Post
    And more importantly, how can we help the sport to grow?
    To be honest, we riders can't do much as individuals or as a group to help the sport grow - at least not by ourselves. We can be leveraged for marketing of the sport (social media, meet-ups, word-of-mouth, etc), but we can't solve the accessibility problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatSlyBastard View Post
    Anyway, what are your thoughts on this?
    I think there is an unrealized demand in the mass market for skiboarding. Not huge demand, but enough to make it a strong niche product that can sustain a market share for the long term. A common attitude I see here is the idea that skiboarding and skis/snowboards are mutually exclusive, that one must make a choice. We may not say it so bluntly or even admit to it, but it's there. That doesn't help grow the sport. Instead, we should look at it as when in the life of a snow sports participant can skiboards fit really well, perhaps better than other options at that time, then make it accessible to those people at that time. There may need to be new skiboard products to target those needs. It is OK for people to move into and out of skiboarding - that's far better than never trying it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fun Machine View Post
    I think one key reason for the decline of skiboarding is zero accessibility for the masses. Every sport has attrition from the aging out of its participants, so growth has to focus on attracting and keeping new ones. Two of the pillars of snow sports are the schools and rental shops, and the industry has settled on skis and snowboards. So when beginners go to resorts, they don't see skiboards, aren't told about skiboards, can't rent skiboards, can't buy skiboards, and can't take lessons to skiboard. So then, it is no surprise that they aren't ever going to skiboard.
    Therein lies the catch-22. It is notoriously difficult to make money selling skis through normal channels, but it also is clear that the way to grow would be to get boards in the hands of people. The only way I can think of to help the ďdemoĒ aspect is for us skiboarders to reach out to a handful of local receptive ski shops who might be interested in running the program.

    I envision RVL8 sending out boards and bindings to the shop for demoing while they run the logistics of renting them out. They could probably get the majority of rental income as well as good portion of sales proceeds if someone wants to buy the demo pair. Probably best to keep the number of shops extraordinarily low as well as the available boards/bindings since it is unlikely multiple would be rented out at once eg. a shop gets maybe 5 RVL8 boards and 2 bindings.

    I know there are some places that are fine renting out skiboards (Sugar mountain in NC does but they are the Head 94cm) so Iím sure on a small scale this might be doable. I donít think it could hurt anyway


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    Quote Originally Posted by Fun Machine View Post
    A common attitude I see here is the idea that skiboarding and skis/snowboards are mutually exclusive, that one must make a choice. We may not say it so bluntly or even admit to it, but it's there.
    I think this is mostly true, at least for many people, and actually in my opinion it's not a bad thing.

    Maybe it's just the wording, but the way you put it sounds like somebody would miss something out of choosing one over the other, which might not be the case for many people.

    When I think about choice, I think "educated choice", trying some of the different options and knowingly making a choice. When you choose the option you enjoy over the one that you struggle with, they do become mutually exclusive, but it's not a bad thing, because you know you won't get back to the option you dislike.

    I was an average skier, struggling on steeper blues slopes with lots of muscle pain, knee pain, not being able to really enjoy it. I got into skiboards and they were perfect for me, I've improved immediately and in no time I was able to do red and black slopes and keep pace with expert buddy skiers.

    So skis obviously got out of the equation for me, but this is my knowledgeable choice that I don't regret it at all.

    Talking about the niche for skiboards, I don't think it's that thin actually. There will always be good skiers that won't even consider trying skiboards, but I don't think this is a problem. It's not them the "target" for skiboards in my opinion.

    I'm convinced there are *lots* of people like myself from some years ago, people that are trying to enjoy skiing and they don't manage to and struggle with it. I'm convinced for many of those skiboards would be a much better alternative if they would be aware of it. To me that's the major thing : putting the alternative out there, in their face, for people to see it ...


    Otherwise OP, consider yourself lucky you have a community there, in 7 years I've yet to stumble into a fellow skiboarder in the Alps

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  8. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom91381 View Post
    Well if sales or sold out boards on skiboardsonline are any indications , I think it’s becoming a little bit more popular ?
    I look at that Facebook page and it keeps going up with new people joining all the time.
    I’m sure Talon’s videos do help out with his subscription base and views , but just because you don’t see the Skiboards while your on the mountain doesn’t mean they’re not there .


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    Not necessarily. But if there is a lot of skiboarders, you would see them.


    Also, boards have been selling out since I first bought revel8s like 10 years ago. I think they only make one batch per year.



    As for others commenting about rental shops and such that is true. BUT that is why I think if we can get enough exposure, it will hit a point where it pays off bigtime. If people just see skiboards on the mountain, it would be enough to raise their interest whether they are rentable or not. Many places do still offer lower end skiboards and snowblades.


    Also I think the name skiboard hurts us. No one knows them by that name. I actually just tell people I ride mini skis because it is much easier than trying to explain what a skiboard is without using the term mini ski or snowblade.
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  9. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatSlyBastard View Post
    Also I think the name skiboard hurts us. No one knows them by that name. I actually just tell people I ride mini skis because it is much easier than trying to explain what a skiboard is without using the term mini ski or snowblade.
    The fact that some people don't know what they are does not make the name incorrect. Everybody that knows what skiboards are would not name them otherwise.

    Calling them mini-skis or snowblades is not only technically incorrect, because this is not what they are, but it's also misleading and I think it doesn't do the sport any favor, rather the opposite. "mini-skis" has to me a clear connotation of a kind of toy-like thing, something to play with in special circumstances, maybe for kids or for park and tricks. One would expect to do "serious" skiing on skis, not on mini-skis. As an adult I would want to do "real" skiing, so I would never buy into "mini-skis". Not to mention they have several restrictions, I don't think for instance anyone would ride mini-skis in deep powder...

    Skiboards on the other hand are full-featured devices on their own, which can be used in all conditions, circumstances and snows. They can and are completely replacing skis. They are not mini-versions with reduced functionalities.

    A short but misleading explanation is worse than a longer but accurate one. It's like explaining the game of Go by saying "it's a bit like chess" when in fact it's nothing like chess ...
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  10. #10  
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    I don't see this as a dying sport, but maybe that's because I'm out west and have been the lone skiboarder on the mountain for a long time. It's a niche sport and I don't see it ever becoming equal in ridership to long skis or snowbords. However, that small base of riders does make it completely possible to double or triple ridership in the foreseeable future.

    I agree with Toro that promoting the sport outside of the park dimension is the way to build a bigger user base. I still get asked a lot on the gondola if they're trick skis or exclusively for jumps and spins. I don't really do much for tricks; I'm on a big ugly mountain and use my skiboards to slay the steepest slopes, the tightest glades and the narrowest chutes (and some speed runs on the the groomers, now that it's spring and half the mountain is closed for avalanche danger). It's always interesting to see the attitude shift in someone I've talked to before they've seen me ride, and after.

    I also agree with newbie2011 that the main target market for expansion in skiboards is the intermediate masses that are struggling with skiing, but I think the image of what a skiboard is needs to include the capability to send anything the mountain can throw at you. I switched in the early years of the sport as a double-black rider who had started to stagnate on skis and needed some freedom to keep advancing.

    I do think there's also room for expansion with expert skiers who would consider adding a pair of skiboards to their quiver of long skis. Skis have got a lot better since the 90's, but so have skiboards, and these are now serious all-mountain tools that can outperform other types of gear in difficult conditions. Ease of riding is what will keep people on their boards, but pushing the limits gets attention. Nothing changes someone's mind quicker than getting their ass kicked by a blader.

    This is the whole point of ski/snowboard movies, magazines and media, and why gear companies spend so much money on promotion and sponsorship. Skiboarding, being a small-revenue industry with only a few producers, just doesn't have the capability to market and distribute directly to the masses. So it's encouraging to see this discussion taking place, and to have so many riders willing to be ambassadors for the sport. This spring, I've been trying to get buddies who ski and have ridden with me to saddle up on the Spliffs for a few runs and see what they think. Those that have, enjoyed it.


    This thread is another reminder to get off my arse and start getting some videos shot and posted. I've got zero social media presence and no smartphone, but I do have enough friends that are keen to get me on video that it should be doable. Anyone got a cheap used GoPro for sale?
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  11. #11  
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    Is skiboarding dying? Yes and No

    For the YES: I have definitely seen less true skiboarders on the mountain each year (on general days when I am not going to a planned meet-up with another skiboarder). It was a shortened season for me only getting about 20 days in but in those 20 days I encountered less than 5 skiboarders and only one was on a newer skiboards. The rest were riding old blades from the 90s just to try something different. I've actually seen more people on SledDogx SnowSkates than skiboards this year.

    Plus skiboarding has been a bit stagnant. There were no new designs this year to be excited about just some new graphics. I don't know if there is much innovation left in the sport to excite core riders or bring in new riders. RVL8 and others have tinkered with rocker, size, and shape but at a certain point there is only so much you can do with a 110cm +/- ski package.

    For the NO: I would argue that skiboards have just evolved into twin tip skis. Each year I see skiers, especially park skiers, on slightly shorter, slightly wider twin tip skis. They are really just the evolution of skiboards. They are light and nimble like skiboards but being a bit longer gives them more edge hold on ice, more float in powder, and more landing gear for jumps. I'll confess I own a pair of 160+cm twin tips that are a more stable ride than any of my skiboards (albeit less playful). As the major ski companies fully absorb the fun features of skiboards into nimble twin tip park skis the skiboarding industry is reduced to a few one man shops like RVL8, Summit, and Spruce that only have the resources to focus on the few remaining diehard riders. How long it will last is anyone's guess but until one of the big ski companies sees profit in it skiboarding will remain a niche sport and will only survive as long as those few remaining companies chose to stay in the business.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toro View Post
    Therein lies the catch-22.
    ...
    I envision RVL8 sending out boards and bindings to the shop for demoing while they run the logistics of renting them out.
    ...
    I know there are some places that are fine renting out skiboards (Sugar mountain in NC does but they are the Head 94cm) so
    Well, it's not all catch-22. In order to rent skiboards out, you first need adjustable release bindings. There are actually quite a lot of ski shops that rent out blades like those Head 94's because there are no technical hurdles to servicing them and renting them out. If RVL8 and Spruce wanted to make skiboards more accessible for the masses, one very simple thing they could do is to add countersinks to support the direct mounting of SLR rails. What you lose in performance and flex won't matter to the target audience who are beginners and intermediates.

    Quote Originally Posted by newbie2011 View Post
    Maybe it's just the wording, but the way you put it sounds like somebody would miss something out of choosing one over the other, which might not be the case for many people.
    It certainly isn't the case for many people, but the mentality persists. Even in this thread Wookie "confesses" to owning twin tip skis as if that's something to hide. Really, what is wrong with owning twin tips? Absolutely nothing. I do, too. And you seem somewhat offended or at least unhappy with calling skiboards "mini-skis." But they look like ... mini ... skis.... Of course, I get it. I, too, correct others when they call my skiboards "blades" - I know they don't mean it in a derogatory way and probably aren't even familiar with the term "skiboard," but I'm still annoyed. Silly me. (BTW I mean Wookie and you no offense! ).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fun Machine View Post
    It certainly isn't the case for many people, but the mentality persists. Even in this thread Wookie "confesses" to owning twin tip skis as if that's something to hide. Really, what is wrong with owning twin tips? Absolutely nothing. I do, too.
    To me "mutually exclusive" is not the result of a mentality thing, but of a voluntary choice. I've done skiing, then discovered skiboards and I know that I won't do skiing again because I choose to, because I enjoy skiboards a million times more so it's my choice to give up on skis. And probably lots of other people make the same choice.
    But it's equally ok to do only skiing or both of them. I don't think anybody here is preaching any sort of "only skiboards" religion. As far as I can tell, when people "confess" that they still do some skiing, they do it at least half-jokingly, because nobody will scorn them or hit them over the head with a ski pole. And not only because skiboarders don't use poles

    Quote Originally Posted by Fun Machine
    And you seem somewhat offended or at least unhappy with calling skiboards "mini-skis." But they look like ... mini ... skis.... Of course, I get it. I, too, correct others when they call my skiboards "blades" - I know they don't mean it in a derogatory way and probably aren't even familiar with the term "skiboard," but I'm still annoyed. Silly me.
    Oh, I'm definitely unhappy, especially in the context of popularizing skiboards, and I think there are good reasons for that :
    - mini-skis/blades have certain specifics in terms of usable range, type of snow, type of ride; but these specifics come with some limitations. When you equal skiboards to mini-skis, automatically you assign them the same limitations, which is just wrong, because for instance the are lots of skiboards that are all-mountain, all-snows devices, unlike any blades I know of
    - mini-skis and blades have been around since before skiboards. People have a certain idea about what they are and what they are useful for. That idea will be in a range, from very precise to absolutely wrong. Thing is, when you talk to someone new, you don't know what their (mis)conception about mini-skis is and you kind of help them assign the same misconception to skiboards ...
    - when someone asks about skiboards, most likely they will be on skis. And most likely they are not attracted by mini-skis, or they would be riding them. So I would rather avoid helping them imagine they already know and dislike skiboards
    - when you get a question about skiboards, it comes from a sparkle of curiosity from seeing something unfamiliar. if we just tell them "oh, they're some sort of mini-skis", without any further explanation, I think most of the time that curiosity will go away, because they fall back on something "familiar", because they kind of know what mini-skis are so it becomes less intriguing. Telling them they are "skiboards" requires a follow-up explanation, so it provides two benefits: it puts the name out there, and it gives us the possibility of describing, explaining what they are, their benefits, where to get them, the forum address, etc.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fun Machine
    (BTW I mean Wookie and you no offense! ).
    This is one of the - if not the - most friendly forums I've been part of, so don't worry, none taken !
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fun Machine View Post
    If RVL8 and Spruce wanted to make skiboards more accessible for the masses...
    Every time one of these threads rolls around forum members talk about RVL8, Spuce, Summit, etc. as if they are on the same level as Head, K2, etc.. Outside some short skis made by Head and Elan the entire skiboarding industry is small businesses working out of their garages.

    The "just make rental skiboard bindings and make them available in ski shops" argument is not as simple as it sounds. K2 and like drop millions in RD, marketing, demos, etc. The big ski companies likely give away more skis annually than the entire skiboarding segment sells in a year. And once you get past the dollars and cents of the issue you have the liability concerns. If RVL were to put demo boards in 50 stores on the West Coast and one person gets hurt, claims it's the proprietary demo bindings, and sues RVL8 the entire company is gone. If you don't think it's tough to be a small business ask Greco to share the legal battles over the Revel8 (now RVL8 thanks to lawyers) brand.



    Quote Originally Posted by Fun Machine View Post
    And you seem somewhat offended or at least unhappy with calling skiboards "mini-skis."....
    Quote Originally Posted by newbie2011 View Post
    Oh, I'm definitely unhappy, especially in the context of popularizing skiboards ...
    THEY ARE ALL JUST SKIS .... short or long, fat or skinny, twin tip or directional .... it's all just skiing. You'll never hear someone differentiate between a GS ski and a powder ski. They are both in the same family just like skiboards. Remember if not for early skiboarders riding through "Snowboard Parks" the twin tip park ski might not exist along with the XGames and Olympic Freestyle Skiing.

    I was once very insistent on people calling my "short skis" skiboards but I am over it. They are skis. Skiboards are just a type of ski you select for a certain riding experience. And, frankly, if you respond to every "Are those mini skis?" question with a "No, asshole! They are skiboards!" attitude you'll never get anyone interested. On the hill I don't get asked what they are or what they are called and don't offer the name skiboards unless a conversation goes deep. I get asked more practical questions like "Are they easier or harder than long skis?", "Can you ride them in powder?", etc.. Once people understand the capabilities of skiboards they become more interested. Especially if they are struggling on long skis.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fun Machine View Post
    BTW I mean Wookie and you no offense!
    I am physically incapable of being offended because I am always pissed off to start with .... LOL.
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    I definitely agree, Wookie, that RVL8 and Spruce could not come remotely close to matching the large ski industry players. I do think (from my completely outside perspective so take with massive grain of salt) there is the possibility of very very small pilot programs with a few trusted shops. Would it take the world by storm? Definitely not. But the value of incrementalism tends to be overlooked.

    I do think that as many people recommend skiboards to others on the slopes, they should have the link to the demo program (maybe make the handout cards about the demo program). The hurdle to buy is obviously much higher than renting and in line with the pie in the sky demoing in shops this could be a way to have in house.


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