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  1. #31  
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    After more reading and pondering, it seems that the Condor with the first iteration of your touring set up might work best for me initially (i.e.the nsn without turning the skiboard around). I doubt I will torque the binding enough to have the release problem that you did as I'm unlikely to be out in as difficult conditions or push the boards as hard. Plus I don't have the variety of bails to experiment with at least at this point.
    The 1 nagging concern about this approach is using a non-release binding on a board that is technically too long for this at my height - 5'6". I ski long backcountry skis without release mechanisms - should I worry about it in this case. Again, I'm not looking to go fast and hard. I just want to get into the backcountry and toodle around with my kids as they are learning to snowboard. If I catch this bug then I can worry about more hardcore gear in the future.
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  2. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by nm13 View Post
    The 1 nagging concern about this approach is using a non-release binding on a board that is technically too long for this at my height - 5'6". I ski long backcountry skis without release mechanisms - .
    I think the decision to use non release bindings is a purely personal one .. yes , you are taking more of a risk the longer the skiboard .. if you take a big 110 skiboard like the Condor and ride it set back like I do the risk is higher then riding it centered , it is difficult to quantify the risk , just as in riding telemark bindings ..
    on long skis I always used non release telemark bindings and felt comfortable that way .. my buddy switched to voile release telemark bindings and thought I was nuts to continue riding with non release .., the majority of telemark riders still use non release bindings, .. in the skiboard world like in the telemark world .. many feel that the risk is unacceptable and use release bindings.. many feel that the risk is well with acceptable ranges and use non release bindings. .. it will always be very difficult to quantify the risk ..and I think it is a personal decision .
    Boards :
    Blunt Xls -SBOL Modified GNU Rear Entry Snowboard Bindings
    Rockered Condors- SBOL Modified Sims Cipher Snowboard Bindings
    Rockered Condors - Backcountry modified RVL8 Receptor Binding -
    Spliffs -Backcountry modified RVL8 Receptor binding
    Spruce Osprey - Center Mounted with Spruce Backcountry riser/ Ambition AT binding
    Spruce Sherpa - Rear Mounted with Spruce Backcountry riser/ Fritschi AT binding

    Boots:
    Ride Insano Snowboard Boots
    Full Tilt Booters
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  3. #33  
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    Jack, After reading alot more and thinking about my needs and inexperience it seems like jumping immediately into either the Condor or the Sherpa might be too much at first, particularly because I want to spend some time on groomers with my kids. I'm thinking more about either the soft Alp or the Spruce 120 as sort of trainers for the Condor or the Sherpa but that's probably for another thread.
    My question is back to mounting Dynafit bindings. Jeff Singer responded to a query, suggesting that it might be possible but had to be done by hand at their shop. I might be willing to invest in this. But it probably makes the most sense if the bindings can be moved to different boards. My question for you is, if you had another board with precisely the same custom inserts as your Sherpa, would the Fritschi's and custom risers be transferable like non-release bindings?
    If I were to invest in Dynafits on the 120, I'd like to be able to move them to a bigger board in the future. But it would also be nice to switch them back and forth so I'd only need one set of bindings and one pair of boots.
    By the way, Jeff mentioned that he might be interested in making some production Sherpas with the additional inserts. I'd buy some in anticipation of future backcountry pleasure!
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  4. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by nm13 View Post
    If I were to invest in Dynafits on the 120, I'd like to be able to move them to a bigger board in the future. But it would also be nice to switch them back and forth so I'd only need one set of bindings and one pair of boots.
    By the way, Jeff mentioned that he might be interested in making some production Sherpas with the additional inserts. I'd buy some in anticipation of future backcountry pleasure!
    with the two plate riser system that jeff invented. it would be easy to move the binding to another board . , but each board would have to be set up with the exact same insert set up .

    the issue with a dynafit installation for jeff is that position of the boot is critical in determining where the screws need to go for the binding ,

    here is what i would do if i wanted a custom dynafit set up on a 120 , i would buy a 120 now , have a ski shop but in two additional inserts on each board to support a plastic riser in much the same way that jeff does his two plate riser set up .. and then have the ski shop drill the plastic riser for a dynafit binding .. before you do this , you should ask jeff what the pattern he intends for a two plate sherpa or spruce production board next season .. and have the ski shop put in the inserts in the same pattern in a current 120 .
    then it would be a simple matter of removing the plastic riser with the dynafit binding attached and just bolting it on your Sherpa .. if you do a search here you will see a number of posts in which i detail how i created plastic risers for the 120 and the sherpa for telemark bindings using the standard inserts on the board .. i would do the dynafit installation in much the same way , but because of the nature of the dynafit binding you would need a separate riser for the toe and the heel piece supported by 4 inserts each ..
    Boards :
    Blunt Xls -SBOL Modified GNU Rear Entry Snowboard Bindings
    Rockered Condors- SBOL Modified Sims Cipher Snowboard Bindings
    Rockered Condors - Backcountry modified RVL8 Receptor Binding -
    Spliffs -Backcountry modified RVL8 Receptor binding
    Spruce Osprey - Center Mounted with Spruce Backcountry riser/ Ambition AT binding
    Spruce Sherpa - Rear Mounted with Spruce Backcountry riser/ Fritschi AT binding

    Boots:
    Ride Insano Snowboard Boots
    Full Tilt Booters
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  5. #35 Dynafit bindings on Spruce 120 skiboards 
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    Hello Jack,
    I too am very interested in fitting Dynafit bindings to my Spruce 120 skiboards.
    You mention using two risers (for the heel and toe pieces), attached to the skiboards using 4 inserts each.

    Would it also be possible to use a single long riser, attached to the standard 4 inserts, then mount the Dynafit bindings on this riser (similar to how alpine bindings are mounted to Spruce risers)?
    The advantages of this method would be that no additional inserts would be required, and the center portion of the board would have less flex (reducing some of the risk of unintentional release of the Dynafit bindings, which is sometimes possible when skis are subjected to excessive downward flex).

    I'm thinking of using two stacked pieces of 6mm UHMWPE (Ultra-High Molecular Weight PolyEthylene) as a riser. Would their combined thickness (12mm, 0.5") be sufficient for this purpose?
    ------------------------
    Spruce 120s - universal skiboards for powder, groomed slopes, backcountry/nordic skiing, and snowshoeing!
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  6. #36  
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    It seems that the newer Vertical series of Dynafits might be easier to use than older versions. Supposedly they have 26mm of adjustment rather than needing precise fitting for each shell size. The only downside is they are a little heavier and the stack height is higher. Also check the Voile website for their plates that adapt Dynafits to the standard 4 hole tele hole pattern. I'm also interested in some kind of adapter or riser plate that fits existing skiboard patterns.
    I suppose one could wait until next fall for Spruce to put more inserts in the Sherpa. But I'm interested in trying this on either 120's or the soft Alps because as a newb I'm not sure I'm up to the Sherpa or the Condor yet. In fact, I'm thinking of checking to see if someone has a soft Alp they want to sell which would allow for experimenting with all the binding systems. But I'm kind of broke so experimental resources are limited.
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  7. #37  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grodz View Post
    Hello Jack,
    I too am very interested in fitting Dynafit bindings to my Spruce 120 skiboards.
    You mention using two risers (for the heel and toe pieces), attached to the skiboards using 4 inserts each.

    Would it also be possible to use a single long riser, attached to the standard 4 inserts, then mount the Dynafit bindings on this riser I'm thinking of using two stacked pieces of 6mm UHMWPE (Ultra-High Molecular Weight PolyEthylene) as a riser. Would their combined thickness (12mm, 0.5") be sufficient for this purpose?
    Hi Grodz .. if you look at a spruce riser you will see that the binding sits on the thickest part of the riser in the center and that the riser tapers at the front and the back .. the reason that the riser is as high as it is and also that it tapers in the front and the back , is to allow the front and the back of the board to flex in front and behind the riser without flexing over the end of the riser as a fulcrum and snapping. If you use one long riser that is flat to the board you risk the board flexing up in front and back of the riser and breaking .. of course this would be less of an issue in backcountry applications than in firm snow with moguls etc. ..
    the two plate solution on separate inserts basically duplicates a direct drilled binding and has no risk of the board flexing and breaking over a flat riser that is mounted only in the center .
    Boards :
    Blunt Xls -SBOL Modified GNU Rear Entry Snowboard Bindings
    Rockered Condors- SBOL Modified Sims Cipher Snowboard Bindings
    Rockered Condors - Backcountry modified RVL8 Receptor Binding -
    Spliffs -Backcountry modified RVL8 Receptor binding
    Spruce Osprey - Center Mounted with Spruce Backcountry riser/ Ambition AT binding
    Spruce Sherpa - Rear Mounted with Spruce Backcountry riser/ Fritschi AT binding

    Boots:
    Ride Insano Snowboard Boots
    Full Tilt Booters
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  8. #38  
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    Quote Originally Posted by nm13 View Post
    It seems that the newer Vertical series of Dynafits might be easier to use than older versions. Supposedly they have 26mm of adjustment rather than needing precise fitting for each shell size. The only downside is they are a little heavier and the stack height is higher. Also check the Voile website for their plates that adapt Dynafits to the standard 4 hole tele hole pattern. I'm also interested in some kind of adapter or riser plate that fits existing skiboard patterns.
    .

    Good thinking NM13. i actually thought alot about the utility of using the Voile Dynafit adapter plate ... there are several issues .
    one is that , the use of two screws in the rear of the voile plate seems not enough and there has been some issues with the plate breaking off in the backcountry

    http://www.turns-all-year.com/skiing...6&topic=6148.0

    also once you attach the dynafit binding down on the plate it covers the holes that attach the voile plate to the ski , since the holes on the voile plate are plastic holes and are not meant to have the binding removed and reinserted multiple times .. it basically kills the idea of using the voile plate for moving the binding from one skiboard to another which is what i wanted to use if for

    the vertical does have a large range of adjustment but no where near the range of adjustment of a fritschi binding ... i still think the simpilist solution and safest solution for a dynafit instillation on the Spruce 120 or Sherpa . is a two plate plastic or metal riser with two additional inserts for each of the two plates... .
    Boards :
    Blunt Xls -SBOL Modified GNU Rear Entry Snowboard Bindings
    Rockered Condors- SBOL Modified Sims Cipher Snowboard Bindings
    Rockered Condors - Backcountry modified RVL8 Receptor Binding -
    Spliffs -Backcountry modified RVL8 Receptor binding
    Spruce Osprey - Center Mounted with Spruce Backcountry riser/ Ambition AT binding
    Spruce Sherpa - Rear Mounted with Spruce Backcountry riser/ Fritschi AT binding

    Boots:
    Ride Insano Snowboard Boots
    Full Tilt Booters
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  9. #39  
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    Jack, Your suggestions make sense. I was hoping for the same simple solution as Grodz - 1 long riser that fit existing inserts. But I didn't understand the flex/breakage problem. I was hoping for an easier solution because I am hours from the nearest ski shop for getting inserts put in.

    It seems like the 2 piece plastic riser would be pretty easy to make. I saw in another thread that you recommend using a piece from a 1/2" cutting board. I assume this is hdpe (heavy duty polyethelene). Is 1/2" the minimum thickness? It would be nice to go thinner to keep the stack height down.
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  10. #40  
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    Quote Originally Posted by nm13 View Post
    J saw in another thread that you recommend using a piece from a 1/2" cutting board. I assume this is hdpe (heavy duty polyethelene). Is 1/2" the minimum thickness? It would be nice to go thinner to keep the stack height down.
    yes hdpe .. the thickness of the plastic just depends on the depth you need to get the screws all the way in . .most wood screws for ski bindings need that kind of depth or they come out the other side .. you could shorten the screws.. but i was going for a strong mount with the same depth in the hdpe as i would be getting the screw in to a top mounted ski ..
    Boards :
    Blunt Xls -SBOL Modified GNU Rear Entry Snowboard Bindings
    Rockered Condors- SBOL Modified Sims Cipher Snowboard Bindings
    Rockered Condors - Backcountry modified RVL8 Receptor Binding -
    Spliffs -Backcountry modified RVL8 Receptor binding
    Spruce Osprey - Center Mounted with Spruce Backcountry riser/ Ambition AT binding
    Spruce Sherpa - Rear Mounted with Spruce Backcountry riser/ Fritschi AT binding

    Boots:
    Ride Insano Snowboard Boots
    Full Tilt Booters
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  11. #41  
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    Jack, I ran across another interesting binding possibility - the G3 Onyx. As you probably know it's a heavier version of the Dynafit that I had disregarded for that reason. But the interesting thing about it is the mechanism for boot size adjustment also allows for the binding to slide off and be transfered to another set of mounting plates. The front and rear binding pieces fit on separate mounts like your custom Spruce risers. I queried G3 to see what the hole pattern dimensions are. It would be too serendipitous for those dimensions to be the same as the standard 4x10 pattern so I suspect these bindings may require 9 custom inserts on each side.
    They weigh a little over 3# so are still lighter than most other AT bindings, can be transfered from board to board, address the flex issue, and fit the Dynafit AT boots. What do you think?
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  12. #42  
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    Quote Originally Posted by nm13 View Post
    Jack, I ran across another interesting binding possibility - the G3 Onyx.

    here is a nice review ..

    http://www.wildsnow.com/1861/g3-onyx-binding-review-2/

    and info about the binding swap plates
    http://www.wildsnow.com/1886/g3-onyx-swap-plates/

    the issue with any of these bindings and the spruce boards is that the screw pattern will not be compatible with skiboard inserts .. . I think the best and least expensive solution to a swapable skiboarding touring binding solution on spruce boards is to have two plastic plates anchored on 4 sides each with standard inserts and then drill these plates for whatever binding you want and just swap the plates between insert compatbile Spruce boards . I am in the process of discussing my ideas with Jeff Singer .. hopefully some thing production wise will come of it next season ..

    by the way, both the Sherpa and the Spruce 120 are great backcountry boards .. I had guys on both during the Shredfest backcountry day... Valmorel was testing my direct mounted Fritschi 120 ( t nut insert for each of 7 screws ) and Abilectic was on my Jeff Singer designed two plate low riser Fritschi equipped Sherpa , ......
    Boards :
    Blunt Xls -SBOL Modified GNU Rear Entry Snowboard Bindings
    Rockered Condors- SBOL Modified Sims Cipher Snowboard Bindings
    Rockered Condors - Backcountry modified RVL8 Receptor Binding -
    Spliffs -Backcountry modified RVL8 Receptor binding
    Spruce Osprey - Center Mounted with Spruce Backcountry riser/ Ambition AT binding
    Spruce Sherpa - Rear Mounted with Spruce Backcountry riser/ Fritschi AT binding

    Boots:
    Ride Insano Snowboard Boots
    Full Tilt Booters
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  13. #43  
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    Jack, How thick are the custom risers on your Sherpas?
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  14. #44  
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    Quote Originally Posted by nm13 View Post
    Jack, How thick are the custom risers on your Sherpas?
    the metal plates are pretty thin , the screws actually go through the aluminum and a short way into the top sheet , it acts kind of like a binding retention plate
    Boards :
    Blunt Xls -SBOL Modified GNU Rear Entry Snowboard Bindings
    Rockered Condors- SBOL Modified Sims Cipher Snowboard Bindings
    Rockered Condors - Backcountry modified RVL8 Receptor Binding -
    Spliffs -Backcountry modified RVL8 Receptor binding
    Spruce Osprey - Center Mounted with Spruce Backcountry riser/ Ambition AT binding
    Spruce Sherpa - Rear Mounted with Spruce Backcountry riser/ Fritschi AT binding

    Boots:
    Ride Insano Snowboard Boots
    Full Tilt Booters
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  15. #45  
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    Do they go directly into the top plate or are there inserts in the right places (probably not). Do you have to drill the top plate or do you use self tapping screws?
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